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Paul68 · New Member

This is part observation and part questions so don't mind me if I'm all over the pace.

For the last couple months prior to receiving a Crosman Storm XT and Beeman for Christmas, I'd been doing a ton of looking online to inform myself about today's airguns. It's been a long time since I'd terrorized the local fauna with my 2100 and Airmaster, and I wanted to get up to speed.

One thing I have noticed is what seems an unrealistically high number of quality related issues with many products, most notably Crosman as well as a few others who all share the similar problem of outsourcing production.

It seems to me that in most cases, any company with such a high incidence of quality complaints leading to a high frequency of returns and service claims would lose competitiveness pretty quick. This doesn't seem to happen in the airgun world apparently, but I guess when you can mass produce a 1,000 fps pellet gun for under $100.00, there will always be a market.

At any rate, I am one of the unlucky ones apparently. After getting the Storm and Beeman, I immediately checked em over, tightened things up, and went to it.

The Beeman .22 has been a very strong performer. It's only had about 200 shots through it, but grouping is getting tighter, no issues with scope movement, only one bolt loosened at all, and power seems to be holding well.

The Storm however is a whole nother story. Typical bolts loosening everywhere, scope HAS stayed secured though, and horrible accuracy and difficult sighting in despite pellet changes, over 300 shots and tightening bolts periodically. For a brief period it tightened up and grouping improved although still unacceptable, then it really went nuts and no grouping to speak of. Every shot is a flyer.

So, I of course tore it down.

I found possibly the worst quality control I've ever seen in a product. Which is ironic because initially I was impressed with the build quality. It had a nice solid engagement upon cocking, no looseness anywhere, and seemed fairly clean.

Opening it up revealed:

Debris within the compression chamber. I found first and foremost, a chunk of blue locktite stuck to the face of the piston. Upon removing the piston, there is very dirty lube with a slightly gritty texture to it all over everything.

The piston body tube is very poor. The sides of the tube where the slot is located, has an obvious dent in the middle, as if someone had smacked it lightly with a hammer. The tube is side loading in the housing, leading to imo too much scuffing for so new a rifle. Is this a bad spring?

The piston seal is damaged beyond reuse. Half the sealing edge appears to be damaged from debris or improper installation, or a combination of both. This is probably why the gun started out with slowly improving accuracy, then suddenly headed south. Is this common?

At the bottom of the compression cylinder, there is rust where the face of the piston meets the bottom of the cylinder. This is where the grit contaminated lube came from. Rust, in a metal product covered with a film of oil? Manufacturer using damaged parts that have been exposed to moisture to construct units perhaps?

The trigger assembly is contaminated with grit.

So, I will be cleaning, honing, polishing and making a few mods obviously.

I'll do a polish and lube, new trigger, and refinishing the stock. I also plan on possibly a gas piston conversion, and an experiment in putting a three angle cut on the internal side of the port where the air leaves and enters the barrel.

I have to say, I am not impressed with Crosman, although I do realize plenty of folks have no issues. In my opinion, this kind of thing is simply unacceptable and should not happen with a company this well established. Were I in charge, the level of quality issues would certainly lead me to dump our manufacturing contractor for someone else.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Paul68 · New Member

Well, I certainly understand now why a lot of folks tear em down before ever firing em. It's sad really, because the raw material for a quality item is there. A little better quality control, a little more time putting a better finish on machined parts, and they'd have a whole lot less trouble with returns and unhappy campers.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

You would think all the people hiring the sub-contractors would make more of an issue out of it (quality), wouldn't you? I can on assume that the price per unit is so obscenely low that they would rather deal with returns and such than try to convince the manufacturer to do better.

twalter · Veteran Member

Its the OP's experience that stops me from dropping money on most low end and even high end crosman products. I know its a similar rabbit hole, but Im trying to buy only the made in American stuff as it appears to be more hits than misses.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

twalter · Veteran Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

For someone who has the skills- I would suggest stripping one down, cleaning it up, honing the tube and then possibly upgrading the trigger is the best course of action- you'll end up with a good shooter (better than a unit you could possibly get from the box) and you'll know the rifle inside-and-out, which in my experience tends to ensure people appreciate it for what it is.

Paul68 · New Member

At least with a little work something good can be gotten out of em.

It was mentioned elsewhere that pics were popular here, so I'll add a few. The picture of the chamber doesn't show the rust at the bottom well. Couldn't get enough light down in there. You can see how dirty the chamber is though from the rag after a single in and out pass. The seal is pretty self explanatory. Keep in mind, this has only about 300 shots through it and is brand new.

I've stripped and smoothed the stock tonight and am deciding how to mod it a bit before putting a finish on it. I've got the parts list for a gas piston upgrade, and so may just go that route.

SMP · Silver Status Member

I apologize for being blunt here but isn't this a bit of an unrealistic expectation of what you can buy for $100....and that includes optics

Take the rifle apart and have a really good look at all those pieces. Now imagine yourself in a manufacturing facility in the heartland of the US and your going to have tradesmen make those parts, out of high quality materials and a QC department that isgoing to check quality control to ISO 9000 standards.

Then you need an assembly line thats going to put the rifles together with an eye to fit finish and an overall quality product

And your going to pay those tradesmen, QC and assemblers a fair wage.....

How much do you think your cost is going to be? I'm willing to bet it just cost you as much or more to build a crosman storm as it would to purchase a high end German offering

And you still need to buy optics for it from another American company employing skilled lens makers and paying a fair wage

Then put it in a box and distribute it to every walmart in America for $105

Please do not get me wrong I think crosman springers of all sorts are great- unbelievable value for the dollar. But I'm realistic about what I'm buying and I realize one way or another you ARE going to pay for a quality product. You either pay with your wallet or you pay with effort and elbow grease.

For example a Remington 700 is going to cost you 6-$800 no sights no scopes no nuttin. But it is basically the same machine....and has less moving parts. Made in the US.

Paul68 · New Member

Regardless of the price, I expect something to work and last more than a week for $100.00 period.

Every single issue I see here with gun, is a matter of simple quality control. The dirt, rust and grit in the chamber? Simple cleanliness and nothing more. No cost for a worker to discard a dirty or rusted cylinder and grab a good one.

The seal? Who knows?? Possibly got chewed by gorilla handling during assembly, then finished off with gritty lube. Again, simple basic attention to assembly, nothing more.

To be really honest, these guns are incredibly simple, very old tech, and I can easily see them being churned out by the hundred cheaply just about anywhere.

If I buy a Ferrari, I expect a top end road burner that will last years.

If I by a Hyundai I expect a grocery getter that will last for years.

Same difference. Just because it is cheap, no bells and whistles, and only does one job one way, is no excuse for poor workmanship or reliability.

oddtodd · Silver Status Member

I'm just thanking the powers that be that I got ahold of a decent beeman and 2 good crosmans (titan and storm xt) I have some other crosmans. I have the 2300 custom shop and a 2400 custom shop. Both are built in the US, so I haven't had any problems with either one. My 760 isn't bad either as far as fit and finish go, but it just feels cheap. No weight at all. It's nice for my 10 year old, but I get too shaky with a rifle that light. Anyway, I am just glad I have you guys to ask questions about this kind of stuff. Anybody have a decent picture of a spring compressor that they built?