 |  | | | |  | |  |  | 2 stage trigger on Benjamin NP & possibly others. |  | |  |  | |
 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:09 pm |
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| DavidS |
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| Joined: 31 May 2011 |
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| Location: Coarsegold, Calif. |
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The basic question:
One thing I'd like to know is how to cock the trigger to test out the pull of it without actually cocking the rifle? I haven't figured that one out yet.
What's happened so far:
The instructions that came with the Benjamin NP seemed to state the opposite to me about adjusting the 2 stage trigger compared to what actually happened.
It says, "To reduce the second stage length, rotate the adjusting screw counter clockwise".
This I did, actually to the point of the fiber locking screw being backed out so far it fell out, fortunately I was inside when that happened. So I reinserted it and turned it in, Clockwise to where the fiber insert was grabbing in the screw hole.
The travel of the trigger pull seemed to get longer to me.
So I then turned the Screw Clockwise till it was about half way to being screwed in all the way and the trigger pull seemed a bit better so I turned it in fully. Clockwise and tried it and very little travel on the first stage now and the second stage seems to activate a bit quicker.
Oh, I did apply some Tetra Gun Grease to the variuous surfaces and pivot spots which seemed to help but the trigger is still not a smooth as I feel it could be.
So back to the basic question, how to cock the trigger to test out the pull of it without actually cocking the rifle?
I just noticed that the back action bolt was loose when dissambling the rifle to check the trigger and that may also have had something to do with the poor accuracy I was getting. I didn't have a long enough screw driver to properly tighten the back bolt the last time so I'll have to check that more often. Of course that should be a fiber lock screw too so as to prevent it from work loose under the vibration and shock that it has to endure during shooting. |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:20 pm |
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| AirGunEric |
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You have to cock it to test it- or remove the whole trigger block from the tube and set-up a jig of some sort to hold it with a spring-load of some sort to act similar to the piston.
That being said, don't worry too much about it- the trigger on the NP is not, despite the advertisement, not an actual two-stage unit- you can only adjust the basic pull distance with it. |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:37 am |
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| Slavia |
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| Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA |
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| Quote: |
| That being said, don't worry too much about it- the trigger on the NP is not, despite the advertisement, not an actual two-stage unit- you can only adjust the basic pull distance with it. |
Assuming you're talking about the NP series (and not the NPSS):
Eric is right - the only way it's going to be a "real" two-stage trigger is to buy one of the replacement blades. The trigger swings through space without touching anything ("first stage"), and then finally comes into contact with the other parts ("second stage").
If you turn the screw in (CW), it pushes the strut (intermediate sear) away, so the trigger swings farther before it makes contact. It also disengages the mechanism a bit, so once it makes contact the trigger doesn't have far to go before discharge. (Long first stage and short second stage.) You can also screw it in so far that the sear is so disengaged it's "hanging by a thread" - not good, because a good bump could set it off.
If you turn the screw out (CCW), it brings the strut closer to the trigger, so it doesn't have to swing so far to make contact - but it does have to move farther through the "second stage" to reach the release point. (Shorter first stage, longer second stage.)
I checked the manual for my Titan GP, and it says the same as your manual - which is the opposite of my experience. Then I checked the manual for my G1 (same trigger) and it's written exactly opposite. Curious.
As an alternative to buying a replacement trigger, some guys on this forum have advocated simply removing the trigger spring. I had my Titan set up this way when it was new, and it gives a long, single-stage trigger that is much lighter. Definitely an improvement over stock. (I also backed the adjustment screw out/CCW so the remaining strut spring would return the trigger to its full forward position.)
As for adjusting the trigger without cocking the gun, there is a way. Get a thin, pointed instrument under the primary sear (it rests on the compression tube) and gently pry the sear away from the tube. You will be able to feel the sear releasing (the tool will flop loose):
I'm sure you know this already, but it bears repeating: if you're adjusting a cocked and loaded gun be sure it's pointed in a safe direction. |
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 ¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego! |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:20 pm |
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| DavidS |
| Banned |
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| Joined: 31 May 2011 |
| Posts: 140 |
| Location: Coarsegold, Calif. |
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| Slavia wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That being said, don't worry too much about it- the trigger on the NP is not, despite the advertisement, not an actual two-stage unit- you can only adjust the basic pull distance with it. |
Assuming you're talking about the NP series (and not the NPSS):
Eric is right - the only way it's going to be a "real" two-stage trigger is to buy one of the replacement blades. The trigger swings through space without touching anything ("first stage"), and then finally comes into contact with the other parts ("second stage").
If you turn the screw in (CW), it pushes the strut (intermediate sear) away, so the trigger swings farther before it makes contact. It also disengages the mechanism a bit, so once it makes contact the trigger doesn't have far to go before discharge. (Long first stage and short second stage.) You can also screw it in so far that the sear is so disengaged it's "hanging by a thread" - not good, because a good bump could set it off.
If you turn the screw out (CCW), it brings the strut closer to the trigger, so it doesn't have to swing so far to make contact - but it does have to move farther through the "second stage" to reach the release point. (Shorter first stage, longer second stage.)
I checked the manual for my Titan GP, and it says the same as your manual - which is the opposite of my experience. Then I checked the manual for my G1 (same trigger) and it's written exactly opposite. Curious.
As an alternative to buying a replacement trigger, some guys on this forum have advocated simply removing the trigger spring. I had my Titan set up this way when it was new, and it gives a long, single-stage trigger that is much lighter. Definitely an improvement over stock. (I also backed the adjustment screw out/CCW so the remaining strut spring would return the trigger to its full forward position.)
As for adjusting the trigger without cocking the gun, there is a way. Get a thin, pointed instrument under the primary sear (it rests on the compression tube) and gently pry the sear away from the tube. You will be able to feel the sear releasing (the tool will flop loose):
I'm sure you know this already, but it bears repeating: if you're adjusting a cocked and loaded gun be sure it's pointed in a safe direction. |
Say Eric: I found this out also but thanks.
Say Slavia: I also appreciate all the extra effort you went through even posting a picture of a similiar trigger mechanism.
First off the instructions that came with my Benjamin were Backas-swards just as you brought up and I deciphered earlier as I posted elsewhere about how to turn the adjusting screw on the two stage trigger, which seems to work in this fashion now.
What I did was tried turning the screw in a little more incrementally noting the difference in trigger pull as I went along firing scrap pellets to test it out.
Finally I came to the realization that if I just turned the screw all the way in pretty firmly it would give me the best pull I could get from this stock assembly so that's exactly what I did.
I also did something else similiar to what your showing about the upper sear at the body tube. With the safety off and the rifle not cocked I was able to get my finger nail under the upper sear and then put a medium size bladed screw driver under the front leg of the sear and by twisting the screw driver one way and then the other this worked the sear mating surface with the trigger and helped to polish them both after moving the sear about 200 times while the trigger sear face were in contact. This tended to smooth things up a bit and with the adjusting turned in all the way there is now a very easy first part of the pull and a fairly short amount of actual trigger pull before it allows the rifle to fire. A big improvement over what it was with a much shorter actual trip pull and maybe a bit smoother too? I also used some Tetra gun grease on the two mating matting surfaces as well as other areas. It feels a fair bit better with a much shorter actual trip pull. Oh, I also had used a tapered flat jewelers file to pass over the two surfaces to try and remove any rough deges and I think I did a bit. A small square honing stone may have been better but I'm not sure if I have one?
Now something else I found out pertaining to that accuracy issue was that the back retaining fiber lock screw was actually loosed when I though I had it tightened down but wasn't using a long enough screw driver to do the job so there was very probably a fair amount of movement as the rifle discharged. So now I got the back screw as tighe as I can tighten it by hand and I also loosened the front tube screws on both side to let it settle in place a bit better and retightened them too very tight.
So it should be interesting to see what kind of results I get from my bench rest now?
I'll post the results to test both things out.
Take care and thanks to both of you. |
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_________________
I'm a Firm Believer in Gun Control!
'You and Only You', should be the Only One in control of YOUR Guns! |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:35 pm |
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| DavidS |
| Banned |
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| Joined: 31 May 2011 |
| Posts: 140 |
| Location: Coarsegold, Calif. |
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Not directly related to the thread.
Oh Slavia,
I noticed that your located where an old but very large sporting goods manufacturer, 'Hurters' used to be located. Now there was a place that any of the major Big Boys now could really look up to as they actually made most everything they sold and put thes guys to shame as far as the assortment of what was available! |
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_________________
I'm a Firm Believer in Gun Control!
'You and Only You', should be the Only One in control of YOUR Guns! |
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:37 pm |
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| Slavia |
| Moderator |
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| Joined: 31 Mar 2008 |
| Posts: 4382 |
| Location: Waseca, Minnesota, USA |
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| Quote: |
| I noticed that your located where an old but very large sporting goods manufacturer, 'Hurters' used to be located. Now there was a place that any of the major Big Boys now could really look up to as they actually made most everything they sold and put thes guys to shame as far as the assortment of what was available! |
You could get just about anything from the Herter's catalogue. The company is gone, but its influence is still felt - I work for the printing company that got its start making those huge catalogues. Cabela's owns the Herter's brand name, but it's just a name now - they no longer make anything.
I have a Herter's trigger shoe on my Slavia 631...
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_________________
¡Listo! ¡Apunte! ¡Fuego! |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:52 am |
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| DavidS |
| Banned |
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| Joined: 31 May 2011 |
| Posts: 140 |
| Location: Coarsegold, Calif. |
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| Slavia wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I noticed that your located where an old but very large sporting goods manufacturer, 'Hurters' used to be located. Now there was a place that any of the major Big Boys now could really look up to as they actually made most everything they sold and put thes guys to shame as far as the assortment of what was available! |
You could get just about anything from the Herter's catalogue. The company is gone, but its influence is still felt - I work for the printing company that got its start making those huge catalogues. Cabela's owns the Herter's brand name, but it's just a name now - they no longer make anything.
I have a Herter's trigger shoe on my Slavia 631...
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That's fantastic Slavia, Yes Herter's was truely the Sporting Goods - Manufacturer & Outlet that all or these so called big names only can dream of being.
For those that are unfamiliar with 'Herter's, actually two Brothers' Jacque & ?, they literally had everything you could ever imagine for hunting, trapping, shooting - reloading of any type along with all the supplies of any type, gunsmithing & manufacturing of both pistols and rifles, Scopes etc. not to mention Birch bark canoes, tents etc, etc.
They had an assortment of fine quality wood rifle stock blanks along with a selection of hand sketched styles of stock design with a true rolled over cheek piece. You picked the checkering pattern you wanted and a craftsman would hand checker the stock for you to your desired pattern. This was the real thing, not stamped or molded as today or done by machine. A true work or art. Want a Birdseye Maple stock checkered a certain way in wide target varmitter style you could get it! Want it fully glass bedded, again you could get it. Want custom fore end cap and pistol grip cap, again you could get.
I bought not only the complete Herter's Super heavy duty Turret head Press, Their Dies for reloading .243 & .308 but their Torsion Wire powder scale, and powder dispenser and all other reloading components needed including their own Copper jacketed bullets for both calibers. Oh, I almost forgot they even had their own ling of rifle cartridge brass with their name stamped on the head! I still have everything too!
There a lot more too about them but enough for now. These places today couldn't even begin to hold a candle to Herter's.
Yes, Slavia, your in what once was a spot many sportsmen dreamed of going to.
An excerpt from an article on the web about Herter's:
"Whether you were 10 or 100, a pilgrimage to Herter's captured every young sportsman's imagination through the latter half of the 20th century. You'd step through the doors to find every hunting and fishing item known to man under one roof." |
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_________________
I'm a Firm Believer in Gun Control!
'You and Only You', should be the Only One in control of YOUR Guns! |
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:26 pm |
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| DavidS |
| Banned |
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| Joined: 31 May 2011 |
| Posts: 140 |
| Location: Coarsegold, Calif. |
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| As far as my trigger adjustment, it seemed to work well as even from a free standing position and not being real steady I was still able to hit the mark at about 35 yards! The shorter trigger pull seemed to work pretty well! |
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_________________
I'm a Firm Believer in Gun Control!
'You and Only You', should be the Only One in control of YOUR Guns! |
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