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jlwilliams · Veteran Member

I know this one is going to draw some flame.

So; I'm looking around at airguns, as I tend to do. A couple of observations hit me. One, the Chinese BAM and Xisico airguns are way better than they were a few years ago. Not all drippy and clunky. That's nice. Next, Crosman, Ruger, Stoeger et all are importing a wide piece of their lines. From what I've found on the web, Stoegers are made in the BAM factory and so are a bunch of the others. Same factory is producing the name brands that people trust as are producing the 'cheapo knock off'. Ain't that something.

Here's where I start really drawing flame. I look at the Crosman 22xx guns we all know and love. We buy them with their craptacular triggers (which we replace) and the plastic breach (which we replace), by the time we have a good shooting CO2 gun we're into it for almost twice the OTD price. We add stocks (or buy the 260) and we convert to tank feed. Noiw, the QB78 comes with a steel breach and an adjustable trigger that finishes out pretty nicely with a few shims and turning the built in adjustments. The QB79 is all set up for a tank. So, why buy the Crosmans?

Is it just me, or are we buying Chinese crap with western names on it for more than we pay for Chinese crap made in the same factories?

broommaster2000 · Moderator

Buy BAM, it's most of the time a reasonable bang for your buck.

QB 78: Good gun for little money. Easy to work and improve on.
BAM B50/51: Based on a Daystate. Also easy to work and improve on.

I almost never buy new because I don't think I need to. I can buy a good as new gun for half the price, or less. It's easier in my country though, there are a lot of air-gunners on a little patch of dirt.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Just so there's no confusion- the only Crosman's made in China are many (not all) of their springers, the airsoft and about 3/4 of the BB pistols- all the 13xx/17xx/22xx, Remington NPSS's, C41's, Nightstalkers, 1077's and a couple other models I'm probably forgetting are made in the USA- don't assume that because some models are made in China that all models are made in China- that would be a huge mistake- especially so as Crosman has been, more and more, trying to find ways to keep production from going to China (higher end models such as the Discovery and Marauder, Marauder pistol are also made in the USA).

The 13xx/17xx/22xx are "tinkerer" platforms- they are easily worked on, parts readily available and easily customizable- the Chinese products not so much- the Chinese don't believe in parts support or warranty- so the majority of parts you can find are either from torn-down products or custom-made bits (not from China) and the warranties are provided/covered by the importers, not the manufacturers.

Also, the Chinese still make plenty of crap- B1, B2, B3, B4 just to name a few models (there are others). Let's face it- the only reason their quality has come up is because the foreign importers of the products demanded a higher standard than the Chinese wanted to provide/did provide initially.

Excluding a couple models (the QB78 would be an example)- virtually all Chinese product design is either supplied by foreign manufacturers, or stolen by the Chinese from foreign manufacturers.

That being said, there are some good Chinese-made models but I don't think there is much of an argument to suggest other companies not located in China are doing something wrong. The other thing, worthy of note is that the more that is made in China and the less made anywhere else- the more we're all going to be hurting economically. Let's not WalMart-ize the airgun world- too much has gone that way already.

rsterne · Moderator

I thought the QB78 was basically a Crosman 160?....

Bob

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Slavia · Moderator

broommaster2000 · Moderator

Now THAT'S quality!

Mark5043 · Silver Status Member

................................ EyesWideOpen

walter · Veteran Member

i might return my 97k for one of those instead. Mr. Green

Slavia · Moderator

AirGunEric · Site Admin

packrat · Senior Member

You guys are killing me Crazy LOL

Slavia · Moderator

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

The thing is that Americans tend be loyal to the American dream that American is the best, and manufactures know this and sell you crap then sell you a kit to improve the crap to a less crappy airgun.

Buy a decent European airgun and be happy. Mr. Green

Al

packrat · Senior Member

I gotta go with Alstone on this one ( to a certain degree)..My reason being that of the "higher end guns I've bought in the last 13 months there's only ONE that was seriously PERFECT right out of the box..That being my AA S410, .22, FAC carbine. It has needed nothing since the day I got it.. and that's the truth. My next airgun will be another AirArms or something of at least that level of quality. I would LOVE to have an AirWolf!!