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Air Gun Home Forum Index » Rifles » newb, bummed!    View previous topic :: View next topic  newb, bummed!   Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:29 pm 720fly Veteran Member Joined: 17 Oct 2010 Posts: 150 Location: a top of the Mountain of dreams Hello to all, I am new here. I have always loved air guns, and hunting with them. Till the other day I've only had .177's I am a pro fly designer (fly fishing) and guide who hails from 10,000 ft. above sea level in Colorado. I have some coons, a very large fox and coyotes ( hunting the familly cats) that I plan on killing, but..... I just got a benjamin trail NP XL 1100 .22 ---- great gun on the first day --- not so good on day two. I watched it take a 5 ft. fall OUCH!!!! I don't know at this point if it's just the scope thats done or if the barrel is bent, with no peep sights === I don't know what to do, I put a diffrent scope on it and still could not sight it in again Any help?   Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:38 pm fritz Silver Status Member Joined: 25 Nov 2008 Posts: 2442 Location: New Jersey- outside of Philadelphia You should be able to tell if the barrel is bent by looking at it. Try another scope? Get some iron sights. _________________ "I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly. It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person.   Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:51 pm 720fly Veteran Member Joined: 17 Oct 2010 Posts: 150 Location: a top of the Mountain of dreams Well thank you, another scope is my thought. It is shooting about 3-4 in high and the adjustment Up/Down won't go down far enough   Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:43 pm AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6929 Location: "Out There" 720fly wrote: Well thank you, another scope is my thought. It is shooting about 3-4 in high and the adjustment Up/Down won't go down far enough Shim the mount to correct for this and bring it back into an adjustable range- this may be the scope/mount setup itself, not the rifle.   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:01 am Mark5043 Silver Status Member Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 1379 AirGunEric wrote: 720fly wrote: Well thank you, another scope is my thought. It is shooting about 3-4 in high and the adjustment Up/Down won't go down far enough Shim the mount to correct for this and bring it back into an adjustable range- this may be the scope/mount setup itself, not the rifle. Exactly...720fly,you can make some shims to place on the bottom half of the rear scope ring out of a coke can etc.I had a gun that was 3-4 inches high,so one or two shims will get you back in the ballpark to make your adjustments.   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:48 am fritz Silver Status Member Joined: 25 Nov 2008 Posts: 2442 Location: New Jersey- outside of Philadelphia What they said. _________________ "I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly. It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person.   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:52 am rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC Quote: It is shooting about 3-4 in high Quote: make some shims to place on the bottom half of the rear scope ring *whirrrrrrrrrrrr*.... does not compute.... To lower the POI you have to lower the tip of the barrel.... which means you have to raise the FRONT of the scope, not lower it.... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count!   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:34 pm wrecktangle Member Joined: 02 May 2010 Posts: 62 Location: USA-Maryland rsterne wrote: Quote: It is shooting about 3-4 in high Quote: make some shims to place on the bottom half of the rear scope ring *whirrrrrrrrrrrr*.... does not compute.... To lower the POI you have to lower the tip of the barrel.... which means you have to raise the FRONT of the scope, not lower it.... Bob Now I'm confused.... everyone has always said to lower the poi with a scope you shim the rear ring. Wouldn't that be the same as doing the "down" on the elevation control? I think it's kind of the opposite with what you would do with a rear iron sight. You lower the rear site to bring the poi "up". ...this stuff always confuses the heck out of me....   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:13 pm rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC Here is a quick diagram showing POI (point of impact) high, correct, and low, relative to LOS (line of sight): You will note that in all three cases the "scope" (heavy red line) is about the same height above the "barrel" (heavy black line) at the front of the scope.... When the rear of the scope is "high", the POI is also high.... When the rear of the scope is "low", then the POI is also low.... Therefore, if your pellets are hitting too high, you must lower the back of the scope (or raise the front).... If your pellets are hitting too low, you must raise the back of the scope (or lower the front).... You can actually calculate the amount of shim required if you know the distance to the target, how far out the POI is, and the distance between the scope mounts.... Amount of Shim required (S) = POI error (P) multipled by the distance between Scope rings (R) divided by distance to the target (T).... All measurement must be in the same unit (eg. inches).... S = P x R / T If the target is at 10 yards (360 inches).... the pellets are hitting 3" high.... and the scope rings are 4" apart.... S = 3 x 4 / 360 = 0.033" Since the pellets are hitting high, you need to put that thickness shim under the FRONT of the scope (on top of the lower half of the front scope ring).... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count!   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:56 pm Mark5043 Silver Status Member Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 1379 wrecktangle wrote: rsterne wrote: Quote: It is shooting about 3-4 in high Quote: make some shims to place on the bottom half of the rear scope ring *whirrrrrrrrrrrr*.... does not compute.... To lower the POI you have to lower the tip of the barrel.... which means you have to raise the FRONT of the scope, not lower it.... Bob Now I'm confused.... everyone has always said to lower the poi with a scope you shim the rear ring. Wouldn't that be the same as doing the "down" on the elevation control? I think it's kind of the opposite with what you would do with a rear iron sight. You lower the rear site to bring the poi "up". ...this stuff always confuses the heck out of me.... I'm still a bit confused on this as well.... :?:Can't argue with your analysis Bob... All I can say is that when I was 3-4 inches high with no adjustment room left on the scope,after the shims were installed on the rear ring it took just a few clicks of the scope,to bring POI back up a touch,and I was dead on...   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:54 pm Mark5043 Silver Status Member Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 1379 Interesting....I took a look at some posts on another site about the subject,and it clearly states what Bob mentioned about raising the front of the scope to lower POI... It makes sense,but I don't get how I was able to lower POI by raising the back of my scope,but it did occur,so there must be other factors I'm not seeing here..... Again,I haven't used any program such as Chairgun etc.....I just tweek things until I get the pellet to hit where I want...... I need to study this more when time permits.....   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:16 pm rsterne Moderator Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 2998 Location: Coalmont, BC I'm curious as to what kind of gun you had that the POI was higher than the line of sight (unless it had a bent barrel or such).... I've never experienced that.... in fact many springers have barrel "droop" and require either a compensating mount (back higher) or shimming under the rear of the scope.... In addition, if you are setting the gun up for long range, you have to shim under the rear of the scope.... My 75 yard benchrest zero required 0.030" between the scope and the rear mount.... Bob _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since! Airsonal: Too many to count!   Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:35 pm Mark5043 Silver Status Member Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 1379 rsterne wrote: I'm curious as to what kind of gun you had that the POI was higher than the line of sight (unless it had a bent barrel or such).... I've never experienced that.... in fact many springers have barrel "droop" and require either a compensating mount (back higher) or shimming under the rear of the scope.... In addition, if you are setting the gun up for long range, you have to shim under the rear of the scope.... My 75 yard benchrest zero required 0.030" between the scope and the rear mount.... Bob I encountered the issue when changing scopes on my Airhawk..."D34" clone.The two piece rings were not tall enough to clear the bigger objective on the new scope....so I used a taller one piece mount from my Whisper .22 to achieve the required clearance.On the Gamo one piece mount,they just used a piece of cloth tape for a shim in the rear.I took the tape out...mounted the scope,and I was shooting high. I made a shim out of a brake pad backing plate from my 1/5 RC car,and this lowered the POI,back were it needs to be.So it appears that this is just the design of that mount,and not the way to lower POI on all guns,if one doesn't have any usable adjustment on the scope... open mouth...insert foot.....   Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:38 pm 720fly Veteran Member Joined: 17 Oct 2010 Posts: 150 Location: a top of the Mountain of dreams Thanks to all, I ended up ordering a new scope --- fixed the problem, it came today and to make it fun sighting it in it's dumping snow. thankfully no wind about 90 shots left till it's broke in that has no meaning It's just the first forum I have seen great little icon   Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:21 am packrat Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 882 Location: Out in the woods...Ellabell, GA. It may or may not be "broken in" after the 90 more shots...just keep shooting it and one day you'll realize how sweet the thing is shooting and how much better you like it than when you first got it...THAT'S when it's broken in..it sort of gradually gets better and better..in the meantime you look around and realize that you've bought 2-35 more airguns since getting that one _________________ HEY !! This getting old thing is NOT for sissies... newb, bummed!     Air Gun Home Forum Index » Rifles You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours   Page 1 of 1   All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Main Forums----------------AirGunHome Q&AGeneral Air Gun Questions and TopicsPicture GalleryTarget Shooting: Casual, Fun and CompetitionHunting, Pest Control, Varminting People/Events/Airgun Issue Discussion----------------Introduce YourselfThe BS TopicClubs/Events/Regional/Political Airgun Issues Maintenance, Modification and Reviews----------------RiflesPistolsAntique, Collector and Novelty AirgunsBB GunsPellets/AmmoOpticsAccessoriesAirgun Smithing Buy, Sell or Trade Forums----------------For SaleWant to Buy   Note: If you are seeing "Please enter your username and password to log in." 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