Air Gun Home :: View topic

awesomedick · Member

Hello to everyone. I am a Noobie to this site and to airguns. I bought a Crosman Phantom .22 on impulse from the local Wal Mart and from what I have read about it, I made a good choice. However not being one to leave well enough alone I would like to improve it by what is commonly known as a "tune-up". I would also like to replace things like piston seals and the compression spring with better quality parts which I see are available from James Maccari. Would anyone out there please me what seals fit, both piston and breech as well what spring to buy? You know, like numbers of parts which fit. I can't make much sense out of the lists as presented on his site (noobie!).

I already have the Crosman Quest piston which I purchased from Gravel in Quebec.

Thanks for any answers sent.
Rick.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Don't waste your time buying expensive aftermarket parts- you can flush the money down the toilet alot faster.

Factory seals on this rifle have never been terribly bad- but there were some isolated issues a few years ago with them. The initial problems with the springs have also long since been eliminated. Excluding custom springs that cannot be gotten from an OEM or seals that are not easy to obtain in North America (i.e. seals for a Weihrauch)- there is no reason to be buying expensive aftermarket parts such as these for use on most rifles. People seem to forget that every platform has it's performance limitations- and using an expensive aftermarket spring that might gain 5% on a good day over the factory unit is a total waste.

If you want to "tune" the rifle- hone the tube, if the factory seal is damaged (more likely by removal than being bad to start with), replace it with a factory unit, lube things properly, think about purchasing a Woodward GTX II trigger (or smoothing out your existing trigger contact points- but you will never get it "great" without using the Woodward unit or custom fabricating your own pieces).

awesomedick · Member

Hello Eric:

Thanks so much for your information. I agree with your statement about everything has it's limitations. I guess they are better guns than I was led to believe from other sites. I will be purchasing lubricants from James Maccari as I like the idea of a dampening effect for the spring by application of the the "black tar". I have already ordered the GRT III trigger from Charlie da tuna. I am looking forward to "fooling around" with the gun and learning how to improve it's accuracy. Once again thanks I really appreciate your time and information.

Rick

awesomedick · Member

Hi Eric:

I meant to ask. How do you hone the compression cylinder. I am familiar with honing out engine cyclinders and old drum brake cyclinders and still have the hones. Will the brake cyclinder hone work or is there a special one?

Rick

AirGunEric · Site Admin

The rifle itself is actually very good- but all airguns (just like cars) are limited by the amount of displacement (tube/cylinder volume). Sure, some "tweaks" might be made to squeeze a little more out, but these options are fair more limited on an airgun than on an internal combustion engine. Bottom line is- you cannot create more volume in the tube without changing the tube size- so power is limited by this (and any other airgun). If you are in Canada and have a "detuned" Phantom- the amount of air moving through the tube and out the barrel is altered by reducing stroke by having a longer piston installed to reduce piston travel (reducing air volume and movement), or excess venting on the piston so the air is directed out the rear- not the barrel.

A 1" ball hone is what is needed, although you may have to add an extension on so it will get to the forward end of the tube where the honing is required. Two reasons for this- it removes any possible defects in tube that could damage the seal and cross-hatches it like in an engine to allow seal to mate the surface better after some break-in time.

The "tar" idea is again an "old school" idea that somehow caught on with people years ago- but if you look at it, a bit dubious. You put thick grease ('tar') on the spring- when the ambient temperature is hot, it thins out and gun probably works fine. Now, temperature drops significantly, the viscosity of this "tar" is so high, the gun now gets sluggish and rough. Maybe if you live in Arizona, not so much a problem, in Nunavut, probably not such a good plan.

People with too much time have tried to dream up "ideas" to improve a very simply design (spring-powered airgun) with all these lubes/tars/spacers (moly)- which will, at surface glance, appear to accomplish what they state- "tar" for example will reduce noise and 'twang'- by gumming up the works, will this make for a "smoother" or "better" shot cycle? Maybe (maybe) in Texas, not so likely anywhere else.

Molybdenum- has its merits on metal-to-metal contact surfaces- i.e. behind spring guides and such- but it isn't doing anything for the sealing of the piston seal to chamber/tube walls- unless of course there is surface damage and you frequently apply more moly (in a non-petroleum based grease format so detonation does not occur).

Bottom line- chassis grease, stock parts (excluding trigger) and a hone of the tube will be the best "tune" you can do, without spending money on the equivalent of airgun snake oil. Moly could be used around the spring guides and perhaps on the outer edges of the spring where it might contact the piston somewhat, a few shims between the upper guide and the piston head might add a bit of power (if dealing with a non "detuned" product), but many of these other modifications are founded on old problems that no longer exist or poor thinking on the part of the proponents.

awesomedick · Member

Hello Eric:

Once again thanks. You have saved me from buying as you say "snake oil". I know what the ball hone is, but could you please tell me what grit or grits to use? I am sure I can get one from the local NAPA or Car Quest near me. I do have another question I should have asked before. Is there a problem with spring torque with this gun and if so how do I reduce it or cure it? I have a small lathe (Unimat 3) and this gun and it's component parts are small enough that I can probably make any special item.

I purchased the Phantom Quest piston from Gravel in Quebec so now I can uptune my rifle. I am in the process of obtaining a PAL because I would like to eventually get one of the more powerful and costly air rifles, but for now I know I will enjoy improving what I have as it is a learning experience and a challenge.

Thanks for shedding some light into the darkness. I am grateful for your time and effort in answering my queries.

Rick

domer_pyle · Senior Member

A lot of the time you'll hear people say to use 400 grit to hone the chamber. Polishing steel washers the same OD as the OD of the spring and polishing the ends of the spring and lubing both will help reduce any spring torque since the washers will allow the spring to unwind more smoothly.

Eric, are you saying chassis grease can be used in the chamber? We have lithium chassis grease at work but I figured it wouldn't work since it's in a petroleum base

kanyon · Silver Status Member

Eric has pretty much said it....
A good fitting set of spring guides & a
light coat of a good grease is all thats
needed....
As long as the spring dosn't bounce around
on the guides.....snug fit..no twang....

Moly on any higher load areas...spring ends,,

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Dukemeister · Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

320 is fine.

kanyon · Silver Status Member

After yer tune it you should be able to sit a pellet on the top scope
dial cover..with the gun on a shooting bag fire it and the pellet should
stay put...My B19..same gun/action..the pellet would move 3mm...

AirGunEric · Site Admin

kanyon · Silver Status Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

I'm not suggesting there is a definitive test either way- but part of the problem with any of these sorts of tests is that the sand bags are absorbing all sorts of issues- and depending on what they're stuffed with will affect how well a specific "tune" may be perceived.