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 Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:14 am |
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| Alstone |
| Moderator & Site Supporter |
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| kanyon wrote: |
I forgot....I'm playing with , building HYD systems all the time that can work at pressures up to 50,000 psi.....so unlike most of you 3500psi is not a lot of pressure to me....
To build something to work at 3,500psi..is no real drama...I know..some of yous will concider 100psi high pressure...sorry I can't do anything about that preception....
And as far as failer go...put a burst disc in that has a fail rate lower than
the designed fail pressure of the componets used "a no brainer"...
Then you have a controled failer if needed...
As for the danger side....almost anything can be....you just build it to be as safe as possable...if you were to build the workig & fail pressures the same...well you desurve to have yer head blown off just for being a idiot....
Pete |
One thing your forgetting Kanyon is that hydraulic systems and air systems are as different as chalk and cheese.
I work with live steam boilers all the time up to 250psi and if one of these blows your dead, for testing purposes we fill them with water and do a hydraulic test, then if there is a fault all you get is a leak. So don't try and compare air with oil because it's a different world, and you should know that. You’ll only encourage someone to blow there head off!
Al |
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:09 am |
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| Jaxom |
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've a question that I feel is related to the subject on hand.
I know some of you have mentioned that you've fired ag's with some rather odd caliber pellets. The most common calibers are .177, .20, .22, .25, 9mm, .45 and .50. Is there any chart or graph showing what pressures are required to move say an "average" pellet with in those calibers? |
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.22 2300kt Crosman Custom |
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 1:55 pm |
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| Alstone |
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| fritz wrote: |
"Hydro" testing, as what I take it to be, is the vessel (IE gun) submerged in a tub or such of water and then pressurized to 10% above it's max working range. The 10% is to allow for increase in pressure due to altitude or temperature, or other outside forces.
For me, I would rather have a 20% test.
By the way, if you can TIG (gtaw for you up-to-date pencil pushers) weld, you are at a considerable advantage to others because you don't need to pay someone else to weld for you or constantly use mechanical fastening processes. This would be especially handy adding pressure gauges other high test things. I don't see stick or mig welding doing much for you in this area, just for the record.
EDIT: the ability to braze and solder will also help you out a lot in some occasions. |
Fritz If you want to as you call "Hydro" test you don't submerge the item in a tank and pressurize it, you fill the item with water and pump the water pressure up 50% more than rated value, and as for welding, brazing or soldering anything using high pressure air is a no no, all connections are made mechanically , unless they are made by a machine not by hand, and this is rare. So please make sure you know what you are talking about especialy on a subject like this.
Al |
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 4:22 pm |
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| kanyon |
| Silver Status Member |
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| Joined: 09 Aug 2008 |
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| Location: New Zealand |
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I fully realize this Al..but it was a easy example.....
Done my shear of work on boilers.....the best thing I done
was NOT resitting my ASME9 welding ticket..Not aloud to weld them any more , bloody great and I'm never resitting that welding ticket...
dirty filthy dam things |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:51 am |
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| broommaster2000 |
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| Jaxom wrote: |
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've a question that I feel is related to the subject on hand.
I know some of you have mentioned that you've fired ag's with some rather odd caliber pellets. The most common calibers are .177, .20, .22, .25, 9mm, .45 and .50. Is there any chart or graph showing what pressures are required to move say an "average" pellet with in those calibers? |
For as far as I know, the Beaumont Odin (.50) can be filled to 300 Bar (4300 Psi) the cylinder, for 3-5 good shots.
It's not about if it can be done or not, but if it's a good idea for Turtleman to do it. |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:53 am |
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| fritz |
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Alstone, I didn't really mean welding yourself up a HPA tank  .
But... I wouldn't think twice about letting an experienced pipe welder put a steel scuba tank back together then give it a test. Maybe it would fail, I don't know but if it did I suspect the failure would not be that spectacular. |
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"I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa
Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly.
It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person. |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:55 am |
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| Alstone |
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| fritz wrote: |
Alstone, I didn't really mean welding yourself up a HPA tank .
But... I wouldn't think twice about letting an experienced pipe welder put a steel scuba tank back together then give it a test. Maybe it would fail, I don't know but if it did I suspect the failure would not be that spectacular. |
If your using HPA at 3,000 psi you don’t use welded joint’s, the two don’t mix unless the welding is done by machine and X-Rayed afterwards, such as the filler connection on some large steel bottles, but these are screwed first then welded, plus even air tanks are pressure tested with water to get their certificate, never air! And the last person you want working on a HPA system is a welder. And by HPA I talking 1000 psi Plus
Al |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:45 pm |
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| fritz |
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I just always thought that the "hydro" testing was vessel filled with air under water.
It's vessel filled with water right? |
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"I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa
Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly.
It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person. |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:57 pm |
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| turtlemann14 |
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you fill the vessel with water of hydraulic fluid because it does not compress
that means once ruptured there will be nothing rushing out, like air that has to decompress |
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if it doesn't move at first, get a bigger hammer |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:06 pm |
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| Alstone |
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| fritz wrote: |
I just always thought that the "hydro" testing was vessel filled with air under water.
It's vessel filled with water right? |
That’s right Fritz, if you want to pressure test anything you seal all the holes up then fill it up with water, making sure there is no air left inside, an hydraulic pump is then connected and pressure applied, and because water cannot be compressed it only takes a few pumps to get up to working pressure, pressure is then taken up by another 50 or 100% and held there for a set period 15 or 30 minutes etc, if every thing is ok the pressure is then slowly dropped to zero. If things go wrong and the tank splits all that happens is that a couple of pints of water squirt out no big bang.
Al |
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:43 pm |
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| Jaxom |
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broom,
I'm not sure if that answered my question. But after reading my question over, I left out a few varibles. Even very low pressures will "move" a pellet down a barrel. It's how far it will go afterwards and how hard it will hit at a certain point that actually matter.
Barnes mentions on his site, he, like most gun makers both large and small can build rifles using high pressures, but why? When you can build a more efficent rifle using less pressure that will still travel a fair distance and still hit with solid energy. |
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.22 2300kt Crosman Custom |
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:49 pm |
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| turtlemann14 |
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its very messy i know... i hope it gives you some ides to what i was going to do
this is a valve out of a pneumatic nail gun
 [/img] |
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if it doesn't move at first, get a bigger hammer |
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:59 pm |
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| Rogerflat |
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Couldn't have been on a piece of copy paper or graph paper. Nope, had to be on 1980s computer printer paper from your Commodor64.  |
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I done been assisted by the trees and rivers. Never needed any minister to figure my divinity. |
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:03 pm |
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| turtlemann14 |
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| actually it was an Epson LQ-2550 |
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if it doesn't move at first, get a bigger hammer |
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:05 pm |
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| fritz |
| Silver Status Member |
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| Correct me if I'm wrong, but nailguns using under 125psi are putting nails through 2x wood and like 1/4" steel. Seems like your nailgun is putting out some power, it takes a lot of energy to drive ANYTHING through 1/4" steel. |
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_________________
"I never set out to be wierd, it was always everyone else who called me it" -Frank Zappa
Speed is impressive, accuracy is deadly.
It's not that I'm not a people person, it's just that I'm not a stupid people person. |
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