Air Gun Home :: View topic - Confused about the rules..anyone run across these blunders?

Jaxom · Senior Member

Today I had several errons to run, including two job interviews, in between appointment times I managed to get my hair cut and stop off at a few sporting goods stores. Namely Sportmart and Sports Authority. I was in search of a local store that sells or can at least order me a 22xx.

Now I know that when an air gun of any type reaches a specific FPS rating that our state requires the buyer to produce a FOID card. Unfortunilly mine has expired and since I don't happen to own any regular weapons at the moment, it's not high on my priority list of things to spend money on.

First error I came across was at Sports Authority. I was looking at the rifles (they don't sell pistols anymore because of current county laws and the anti gun crowd bemoaning "look alikes" was their excuse) but...get this, they're selling rifles with ratings well above 1000fps!!! With no id required! Only requirement is the ablity to prove you're over 18 years old. Mind you I was talking to the store manage about this, not some flunky clerk!!! His comment was..."Our corporate head quarters has determined that these rifles are safe enough to sell and that they are less dangerious then a .22 rimfire" Um... I had several Marlin remfires, depending on which ammo I fed them, some of these air rifles had more power!

The next blunder was over at Sportsmart. They're selling rifles (again no pistols although they do carry air soft and paint balls gear) to 16yr olds! And had signs stating as much posted by all the air rifles and supplies display.

Just for the heck of it, I stopped over at my local gunshop on the way home. They also sell air rifles and pistols so it wasn't a wasted effort. And right there in bold they have a sign stating that per state law any air gun with a rating of 700fps and you MUST have a FOID just to handle them, let alone purchase one. This was further varified by several police officers that were there waiting to use the gun range for thier qualfifications.

I've also seen this same issue on some of the websites offering air guns as well. One site says they cannot ship ANY air guns to my state. Yet another says that they just can't sell to anyone living inside the city of Chicago.

Walmart is also confusing. While not the least inexpensive places to get a 22xx gun from, they're not that far off. Best part is avoiding shipping charges! According to Walmart's website you cannot order online any a rifle nor does any store stock any of the 22xx series. But it does say I can order one from them. So I asked the sportings good clerk how long it would take to get an order in once placed, and his reply was, "We don't order any of that stuff, you have to buy what we have on the shelf.") I showed him the page the website states to print out with stock number and who to talk to and he then replied, "I know nothing about that, I just know we cannot order any of that stuff..."

You ever just wanna scream? Talk about royal run around...sheesh! What amazes me the most, is I'm talking about major corporations that have extensive legal staff in house, yet they don't know the rules? They sure are keen on check to make sure minors don't buy booze or tobbaco.

Jax

thepaladin · Senior Member

I'm not sure where you arte, but Wal-Mart, Kmart and all the so called "big box" stores have pretty much stopped carrying anything but a few .177s. in a couple of states that passed laws that made any gun even air guns over .177 calibor subject to ALL gun laws. So, the big stores dropped them just to avoid the extra paper work hassels. They dropped them from all their stores however as the stock is centralized and they won't differentiate between different states.

I think that may be one reason that the air gun magizenes and syuch have been pushing the .177 so hard. they want to be able to produce and sell one calibor. It's bull.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

I remember when the manager at Big 5 told me that they stopped selling .22 cal airguns because people were converting them to rimfires. I thought he was bs'ing me but when i investigated further I found out that some people, especially in third world nations, were indeed converting them to rimfire rifles by putting a pin in the piston.

Fortunately god invented the internet machine so I went to the google and found 800 websites that sell every type of .22 cal airgun you could dream of and went ahead and ordered me one or two. The days of asking some store manager to back order you something is over.

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

That's right. You brits got shafted royally (no pun intended) on that one. Granted, Britain is a smaller and more heavily populated country than the US so I sort of understand why they want to regulate gun ownership.

Can't your friends (bloaks) in the US just ship you airguns unofficially. If you sent me the money for it I'd do it for you. That's not a solicitaion, but I'm just saying that I'm the type of guy that would help out a fellow airgunner.

broommaster2000 · Moderator

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=puns

Anyway, I would like to add that things are changing over here too. "De Telegraaf" (A dutch newspaper, De Telegraaf = The Telegraph, no coincidence) went screaming about during Cucumber time (summer break, when everyone is on their holidays and media have to pull out every trick to stay on the market) that PCP rifles are deadly. Old news, however this probably means that they are going to illegalize these powerfull air rifles too. The stupidest little thing about the whole situation, that it was caused by some kid who bought an (probably Gamo, not a powerfull one) airrifle and shot some other kids with it.

In other words: a stupid kid pulls of a dirty trick. A week later the newspapers claim that, while it is true, there are deadly airguns on the market. What is their point?

They don't say that any stupid idiot who buys an airgun probably is not going to spend enough money to actually buy one of those. When you want a PCP, it probably means that you are serious about the shooting sport. There are cheaper ways to hurt people anyway.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

What next? Banning knives? I don't think Gamo makes PCP's though.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Roger.....you understand a government banning (not controling) banning handguns and mailing of air guns? Look I've argued this before, but I'll keep on. Given an inch governments will take not just a mile, but everything. If we give up the argument we give away the farm. Let me ask you, if they have the right to forbid you to own a handgun, don't they have the right to forbid you to own a long gun, or an air gun or for that matter a sling shot? Are we citizens who vote legislators into office (that is hire them as temporary employees) or are we children that the government allows what "privilages" they want to give us?

The first easily carried and self contained hand gun was the wheel lock. Royalty immeaditly tried to make it against the law for commoners to own one. Why? Less power in the hands of governing authority more rights and power in the hands of people.

Do you know which "so called" modern socioty was the first to register guns? NAZI Germany.

Taxes are paid from the money the people earn, all money does not belong to the government and then they "let us keep what they think is ok".

The citizens of England lost the right to own hand guns when law makers used the events of one particular tragidy to convince the people of their country to stand by as their rights were stripped away. I doub that anyone in the shooting that was used as an excuse for that law was common citizen of the type to use his hand gun for target shooting or simply to have a gun for home protection. But those people lost their rights due to the crime. the only people who lose guns when new gun laws are past are the law abiding citizens.

Now in the UK you can't buy an air gun with over 12 foot pounds of energy without a license and "permission". If your gun isn't supposed to produce 12 pounds but an "inspector" can find a pellet that will give that....your in trouble. You can't buy an air gun through the mail you have to find it locally. For me that would mean I'd have virtually no choice as most of the better air guns are sold from only a few outlets.

I see a spirit in the US and else where that will allow us all to simply let our rights die. I hope it's not that way, but it's the same attitude that lets people say, well i disagree with his stand on gun control, but I'm going to vote for him anyway. Why?????????????

How long before we are simply children, asking for permission to own anything. Remember the movie mentioned before with Sylvester Stallone? In Demolition Man colam coffee, tea, all gone....no spicy food...nothing deemed to "not good for you". In New York, we've outlawed "transfat", in San Francysco fast food retsauratnts are now banned. You can't smoke inside almost any building in the US. You can be fined if you don't buckle your seat belt or fail to wear a motor cycle or BICYCLE helmet. I road my bicycle over two states and never heard of a bycycle helmet. I wrecked more than a few times to.

Just stop and think about the ideas you've been convinced are "normal" and "reasonable". Are they? How much reak freedom have we given up for some immaginary security?

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

You know we in the UK tend to follow the USA in most things, but reading through Paladins post I think as far as airguns are concerned you are following the UK down the slippery slope slowly but surely,

When it comes to importing airguns into the UK it’s not a problem virtually none of the new laws apply to imported guns, anything that Pyramyd Air sells can be imported as long as the output is under 12flb, that’s the problem getting a rifle under 12flb, if it doesn’t have the correct paper work from a reputable dealer then the customs send it back, and the dealer foots the bill, if it manages to get passed then we pay import tax , value added tax, shipping plus $16.00 for the paper work, It’s still cheaper but at the same time a gamble, the only good thing is you can buy all the spare parts you want with no restriction.

Al

cw · Banned

How big of a deal is it to acquire an FAC permit?

thepaladin · Senior Member

That sort of bears out my argument doesn't it? What rigts do you actually have? The 12 pound limit is arbitrary placed as I understand it by shooting an airgun into bone at muzzle length. A few years ago the news was full of a story. A youngster killed his friend with a pump-master. One of the all time starter air guns. His friend had run down range and was hiding behind a tree as the child shooting shot past thet tree at a target. The one behind the tree put his head out without warning and a bb hit him in the eye. it penetrated the thin orbit bone and went into the brain. There was a storm in the news. We could have seen all air guns banned due to a parent who failed to supervise his child and a fluke accident.

THE PEOPLE have got to speak up. The Supreme Court ruled only a few weeks ago that the people of Washington DC could own hand guns. They over turned a law forbidding ownership of hand guns. the news today was full of reports that the mayor and law enforcement in the city are not obeying the "spirit" of the ruling. they are throwing all kinds of road blcks up for those who want to buy a hand gun. They have required weeks to get a permit, even going so far as to require balistics tests. The man who filed the original suite is filing another as he finally got his permit only to be told he couldn't piuchase a semiauto pistol (the majority of modern pistols are semtauto). These remain banned. So, as has happened before in our history we have elected officals going so far as to disobey our courts to push their agenda. A citizen must undertake the expense of another suite. The reasonong is that eventually we'll give up if they just keep throwing road blocks in the path of people who simply want to excersise their rights.

It's a lot like terrorism. We have to win every time, they only have to win once. For once a right is lost it never comes back. Government growth is almost completely irrversable.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

Slavia · Moderator

thepaladin · Senior Member

[quote] It's not too much of a problem CW, you just need to be a member of a licensed gun club for 6months, be a reputable person without a criminal record and have the sponsorship of the licensee of the club, and that’s about it.

Al]

Think about that. You have to belong to a gun club, get sponsered....you could hunt in the Soviet Union, if the gun club owned the gun and they controled its use.

I'm still astounded at what we've come to accept as "normal". The whole point in America's 2nd ammendment was that those people couldn't picyure a time when an American would have to ask permission to own a gun, and our laws were based on what? On English Common Law. How have we come to this nanny state?[/quote]