Air Gun Home :: View topic - Opinion of the best buy for a first PCP rifle

AirGunEric · Site Admin

30 grain at 930fps on "low"! EyesWideOpen

I have to look a bit more in Sumatra's.

After you've had a chance to test it thoroughly- I'd be curious how accurate it is as well.

cfraser · Member

Hi guys. Just some comments, have to be careful what I say.

Do you wonder why you always see pics of the Air Force guns with bipods? Users' pics too. Do you tend or want to mostly shoot that way, rested and not offhand? Think about it carefully...

AFAIK we can't get the SS into Canada. The shroud counts as a silencing device to the powers that be, so far, whether or not it really is.

The build quality/design of the Air Force guns is reflected in their price. They are not very sophisticated, such as the way they implement variable power etc. Compare in the same price range. It's not like labor etc. in the U.S. is especially cheap compared to Sweden or the UK, something has to give. They have lots of options for customising. And that tactical look. Power is not a question though.

I'm just saying... Don't want to ruffle too many feathers on my first post. Cool

BTW, I am just a very new PCP owner. Not experienced at all. But there's lots of info to be had from owners who used to own various guns, that's where you find out the dirt. I got in cheap and bought a Chinese PCP. The first Chinese gun I've ever wanted to actually own. I will certainly not compare it to one of the name brands. Equally, it should not be compared with the build of very low priced Chinese springers. Well built, in a place where labor is cheap. Decent wood, excellent "blueing" (looks more like the British "blacking"), good performance, acceptable trigger, no accuracy issues. A decent clone of a very decent expensive gun. I would rate it much higher, but I don't want to sound too much like a typical new toy owner raver. Don't overlook it, especially the model from a well-known Canadian purveyor. Can't say the ones from other sources would be the same, such as those who also sell by the box or crate, get the distinct impression the regular ones in the U.S. are somewhat "rougher" as shipped. Mine was perfect. Under $500. Don't be scared off by it being non-PAL, it doesn't necessarily have to be Wink

You were talking about getting in cheap, and this is a good bargain for now.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Hello Craig:

Welcome aboard!

Something you may not have realized: You can be specific and mention any gun/guns you want- specific vendors too- their is no corporate "sponsor" that needs to be shielded around here. Also this board is not Canada-specific- but obviously if someone is in Canada so the PAL/non-PAL issue may be quite relevant. There are Americans, Brits, Mainland Europeans and Canadians around here- so no need to be reserved due to fear of talking about a topic that may be restricted in some areas due to regional law.

That being said- look over the "Welcome" message in "Site Topics" to get an idea of what we're all about- one of the main ideas is: the less restrictions on airgun discussion, the better.

Why not show us your Chinese PCP? I'd be curious to see what the Chinese are building that is more worthwhile than many of their cheap springer products.

StevieLaner7777 · Moderator

cfraser Wrote:

StevieLaner7777 · Moderator

So AirGunEric... How did you find out that cfraser's real name is Craig???

Stevie Thumb Up!

cfraser · Member

Hi Eric. I got the impression it's OK to "speak my mind" here. Without being rude of course. I've never had a problem with that anywhere really. I'm more trying to protect myself, and not say too much. My opinions of Chinese springers is a matter of record elsewhere, so I was a hard sell on this PCP gun. I don't mind paying whatever the price, I'm a value guy. It's not the amount of $$, but the "amount" of item I'm getting. Really, I find this "cheap" gun a joy to shoot. It is physically quite big (I don't mean heavy), and I am small, but no problems at all. I have a Banner 4-12x40AO on it at the moment, and it's about 8.5lbs all in. I fill when it's down to 2100psi (you can supposedly go much lower) up to 2900psi, 100 shots I get with that. I like that all my .22 pellets from Lasers to Kodiaks all have the same POI at shorter ranges. JSB Exacts and the RWS offerings, even Crosman wads, too. Makes it so much easier for me, just shoot whatever pellet I feel like without adjustments, not so with my springers. The main thing that makes this gun "lesser" is it doesn't have a European-looking stock, and the trigger isn't any Rekord. But both are very functional, I don't have any issue with how either works for me. The metal work on mine is flawless...I didn't personally select this gun BTW, nor ask for anything special. I have no doubt I'll eventually get a fancier PCP, but no reason to at this point. This gun fits in a little niche between my light springers and a .22RF. I am not certain I would use an airgun for my purposes after a certain power point, I will have to work on that. OTOH a 200ft-lb Dragon Slayer .50 is pretty tempting... Very Happy

cfraser · Member

Stevie: Eric knows who I am. I'm not new to airguns, just to PCP. My oldest airgun I still have I bought in '72.

Re the AF guns, some people kinda forget to mention almost everybody rests them when shooting. Believe it or not, some people almost always shoot offhand, except to sight in. I've never seen a hunter shoot using a rest, but of course it must happen. Yet some people talk of hunting and shooting with AF guns as though everybody ALWAYS shoots from a rest, when that is not so. That's all I meant. With other guns you may have a real choice how you shoot, with the AF guns that choice in reality seems to be a little more academic than practical. I distinctly get the impression the AF guns were designed to be shot from their bipod. Which is totally fine.

And I'm not at all adverse to getting an AF gun myself. But this is a beginners PCP thread I thought, bargains, so I had to mention mine since I'm a beginner at it. It's a sporter-style, but for doing some things I might prefer a tactical-style gun. As mentioned above, the Condor enters into a real gray area for me, awfully close to a .22RF, I'm not wed to using air especially when it starts getting LOUD. My B51 makes no sound except for the hammer and pellet hitting.

I like simplicity. In fact, what put me off PCPs so long was my thought that they were too complicated. They're not, necessarily. Sophistication is a completely different matter. I do appreciate it, even though I'm a slob.

Don't worry, I'm not shilling for anybody. In fact, you should congratulate me on my courage for a) buying a Chinese airgun after all I've said about them and b) publicly admitting to buying a Chinese airgun. There are 12 steps...

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Well, I've avoided PCPs for the most part- no place all that close to me to fill a SCUBA tank, and I just can't see myself flogging a bicycle-type pump up and down for 10 minutes to use the gun. Of course, with my recent experience with a springer- maybe I'll come around eventually. Very Happy

Stevie- yes, I know who Mr. Fraser is/isn't. He's not 'shady'. Being a regular on Canadian airgun forums can make people become quite cautious- always worried "the man" is listening in, always some "sponsor" who funds the place and won't, as a matter of course, be criticized. These ideas may or may not be accurate- but it is what Canadians typically come to expect on many airgun forums. I'm not suggesting that Craig has these "hangups"- but I bet his first post was 'cautious' to see what/how things are really handled or accepted here.

Anyways- yes, I know of Craig because I've seen his stuff on other forums, he communicates very well and I thought he would be a good addition to our forum.

Some people I specifically 'invite' to come around (some people might call this "whoring" Wink

)- so far about 2/3's have appeared here, the rest not. Very few people have been "invited" specifically- maybe 15 in total since the start. A couple that have yet to visit I think are a real loss- one is an extremely radical airgun modifier/tuner who machines piles of his own custom pieces and the other does regular, honest reviews of products (guns) with no sort of financial gain to himself.

cfraser · Member

Well, thanks a lot Eric! Hmmm, I can guess who one of those no-shows is...I'll send him an email kick if he doesn't pop his head in soon. I don't know him personally, just by email and other forums. I'm sure you can imagine how his position elsewhere could impact an appearance here, or not. He's probably just too busy right now. And then there's people like me who delete any email that has the whiff of spam...

The problem in the small Canadian airgun community is saying the wrong thing can get your only supply source cut off. Or hurt a fairly small business. And we need them all. I've never heard of any repercussions from things people have said negatively about the larger vendors. They probably don't hear about it, or more likely, care. It's best to allow for human error, but a continuous series of incidents is a rap sheet.

In the case of this gun, I have to watch what I say because it could negatively impact the joy/satisfaction/etc. of other potential owners. I don't want to make the gun sound lots better than I expected. I don't want to make it sound like the gun is more accurate than I imagined. I don't want to make it sound like the gun shoots and handles much better than expected. Things like that. I certainly couldn't speak of its performance. If I did, I might hurt others and the vendor. The vendor went to a lot of trouble for this gun, and he wouldn't have bothered for no good reason. I am not telling you anything others also won't tell you. You'll have to get/shoot one to find out what I'm not talking about. Those who are Canadian will most likely figure out what advantageous things I'm not talking about. Laughing

Eric: I'm using an FX pump. I weigh 145. It takes 5 easy minutes of slacker pumping to go from 2100 to 2900 psi (the max). Most of those strokes are nothing, I just go slow because I'm an old man and don't want the embarassment of dying slumped over a Chinese PCP, and because people say it's good for the pump to go slow. I'm sure you can hack it. That first fill from empty could be a chore though.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Aha! That's an angle I hadn't thought of with Canadian forums/vendors- the small market. Not too cool to critisize a particular gun that is only imported by one person/retailer for fear of them going out of business and there being an even smaller network of Canadian suppliers.

Interesting concept- but I would think it begs the question of 'if almost every buyer thinks it's an overstated/over promoted gun that doesn't meet expectations derived from, in many cases, this single-source provider' the seller could also stop selling it. I.e. nobody I'm sure wants to reduce the number of airgun vendors in Canada- but if some products aren't really what they are represented to be- the vendor could stop selling them voluntarily with no ill effect to anyone, except maybe the manufacturer. The obvious reasons this may not happen is a) they are not aware of how disappointed buyers of a particular gun really are or b) they're making money selling it and don't want to lose the revenue stream- despite being aware of its shortcomings. If the answer were to be b) that is a whole different animal than is a).

As for one of the 'no shows'- yes you probably have figured that one out. Their position at another forum is actually not of any real consequence- it is their lack of available time. I did have some direct communications with him and found this out and they stated they might pop by here and there to take a 'look-see' at things.

Anyways- this discussion has totally gone off the original topic Thread Hijacked

of what PCP gun would/should someone purchase. I wonder what happened to the original poster, Redster- he hasn't been around for awhile, and at that point he still hadn't completely made up his mind from what I recall of it. Hopefully he's A-Ok.

As for a PCP gun- what about something like a Webley&Scott Raider or a Weihrauch HW-100(S or T)- both of which I gather have had some noticeable price drops recently?

cfraser · Member

Just wanted to correct a potential impression re the B51 I got that my last post may have left. I had hoped my beating around the bush to be taken in context with my previous good comments. In that context there's something I'm obviously not talking about. To clarify, it is nothing BAD, just something GOOD that I won't mention for the benefit of all Canadian purchasers. And nothing but GOOD re the dealer too.

The choice for a first (cheapish) PCP could largely depend on what country you're in. If I lived in the UK or the U.S. I would have gone with something Air Arms most likely. Too bad nobody sells the full range of AA PCPs in Canada, all we can get is the S200. In the UK it may be a more sensible first step. I find it slightly "cruder" than the B51 re the stock and it costs more here. The multi shot feature would be nice, extra cost but elevates the gun's attractiveness IMO.

I would not consider the HW100 a starter PCP. If it is, then it could also be a finisher PCP. Least in Canada with our limited selection. Hard to find somebody say something bad about it, except the thumbhole stock look isn't to everyone's taste. Nice gun, and for Canadians, the only other PCP sporter rifle (i.e. not match-style) available in non-PAL.

Lots of interesting (and sometimes "eccentric") Korean PCPs available here. Virtually nothing from the UK and Sweden available.

Did you read about the rumor that supposedly there is a law to be enacted in the UK preventing mail/internet airgun sales? Some people have already reported refusal to ship guns to the U.S. to individuals, from large dealers who used to do it. Anybody from the UK know the truth of it?

AirGunEric · Site Admin

re: the UK mailing laws- look in the UK Discussion area- it's there.