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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:59 pm |
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kanyon |
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Location: New Zealand |
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rsterne wrote: |
Ahhhhhhhh.... I understand.... What is the total travel of the power wheel?.... You said 3 positions, so I get the idea it moves less than one turn.... Must be larger than the hammer and have pretty coarse thread on the hammer to get enough length change for that range of power, I would imagine....
Bob |
yes it is just less than a full turn....
i have it set to give max out put.. But if yer take the adjusting wheel out yer can rotate the hammer secton foward reinstall the wheel to put the power range lower down..Ie- 300fps to 1100fps in stead of 400 to 1220. |
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_________________ Career Infinity PCP .22
Webley Patriot .25
Hatsan mod 75 .22
Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS)
Kral underlever .177
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:57 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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It Might have an Acme or quad lead thread way more travel per rotation with the same strength. |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:05 pm |
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rsterne |
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I'd like to know the total travel required for a 3:1 ratio between low and high power.... I wonder if we're talking 1/8" or 3/8".... Anybody know?....
Bob |
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_________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal: Too many to count! |
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:36 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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I can test my Marauder for you this weekend and see what an 1/8 of travel does. It may give you some idea whats required The volume of the marauder valve is almost the same as the stock Disco but the port and valve stem are smaller. Might still give you an idea. If someone has a Chalenger 2009 they could test theirs as well. |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:43 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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From just my experience tuneing the Marauder 7 turns wihich equals 7/32= .218 I only saw ~ 200FPS change but Ill need to actually confirm that. It may be closer to 300? Ill check out this week end. |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:36 pm |
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rsterne |
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I would think that the velocity change would be different with different hammer spring preload settings as well.... I would be interested in knowing what the total range of adjustment is.... all WITHOUT changing the velocity adjuster (transfer port restrictor).... If you have the time to make the following measurements with a medium weight pellet (say JSB 18 gr. Heavies) it would be great.... The transfer port should be set at MAX....
Hammer spring preload MAX; Hammer fall MAX
Hammer spring preload MIN; Hammer fall MAX
Hammer spring preload MAX; Hammer fall MIN
Hammer spring preload MIN; Hammer fall MIN
Ideally, these should be complete shot strings starting from 3000 psi to where the velocity peaks and starts to fall.... with the pressure recorded maybe every 5 shots along the string.... You could probably start at 3000 with MAX hammer spring preload and shoot to just past the peak.... then change the hammer spring preload to MIN and continue past the next peak.... That way, two complete strings would be enough to get all four peaks recorded.... one string at MAX hammer fall and the other at MIN hammer fall....
Bob |
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_________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal: Too many to count! |
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:26 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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If time perimits this weekend Ill do the tests. If not I may be able to get some numbers next week. It will be nice to have the info for my records.
Waiting for some parts to build my .177 FT rifle, anyways one of the parts happens to be the Chalenger 2009 Hammer. When I get that rifle together I'll be doing a lot of testing. I haven't tried FT but am looking forward to seeing how I can do with a home built custom.
Hopefully getting an old Sheldon Lathe soon, if that happens I plan on making a homegrown rifle as well. |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:58 pm |
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rsterne |
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I had a bit of time today to fabricate the mount for the valve spring for my Hayabusa....
It is supported by a piece of 1/4" ready rod mounted in the tank block.... The aluminum spider part has three legs that just barely slide into the main tube to center the spring mount.... The spring is a snug fit over the part of the spring guide nearest the shoulder.... Preload is determined by the length of the threaded rod.... although it could be set with a locknut if desired....
There is enough volume (over 20cc) between the spider and the valve for even a full house 9mm.... so any turbulence caused by flow around the spider cannot affect flow out of the valve.... The area for flow past the spider is many times the size of the valve port.... so effectively, the valve volume from a pressure drop point of view is well over 100cc.... This will insure the highest possible average pressure at the valve seat throughout the shot cycle.... This is something most regulated PCPs don't address.... and it is the main reason that non-regulated setups have the reputation of being able to deliver more power than regulated ones.... Since the pressure where most non-regulated guns peak is not far from 2000 psi.... I am trying to minimize any performance differences between a non-regulated setup and my Hayabusa which will initially be regulated to 2000 psi....
Bob |
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Last edited by rsterne on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal: Too many to count! |
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:25 pm |
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kanyon |
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rsterne wrote: |
I had a bit of time today to fabricate the mount for the valve spring for my Hayabusa....
It is supported by a piece of 1/4" ready rod mounted in the tank block.... The aluminum spider part has three legs that just barely slide into the main tube to center the spring mount.... The spring is a snug fit over the part of the spring guide nearest the shoulder.... Preload is determined by the length of the threaded rod.... although it could be set with a locknut if desired....
There is enough volume (over 20cc) between the spider and the valve for even a full house 9mm.... so any turbulence caused by flow around the spider cannot affect flow out of the valve.... The area for flow past the spider is many times the size of the valve port.... so effectively, the valve volume from a pressure drop point of view is well over 100cc.... This will insure the highest possible average pressure at the valve seat throughout the shot cycle.... This is something most regulated PCPs don't address.... and it is the main reason that non-regulated setups have the reputation of being able to deliver more power than regulated ones.... Since the pressure where most regulated guns peak is not far from 2000 psi.... I am trying to minimize any performance differences between a non-regulated setup and my Hayabusa which will initially be regulated to 2000 psi....
Bob |
So the valve has no internal volume..just the port..?
and surplys its air directly from the tube..? |
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_________________ Career Infinity PCP .22
Webley Patriot .25
Hatsan mod 75 .22
Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS)
Kral underlever .177
.............................................
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:08 pm |
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rsterne |
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Location: Coalmont, BC |
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More properly stated.... the volume of the valve is the entire volume of the tube....
Bob |
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_________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal: Too many to count! |
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Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:10 pm |
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kanyon |
Silver Status Member |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2008 |
Posts: 1582 |
Location: New Zealand |
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rsterne wrote: |
More properly stated.... the volume of the valve is the entire volume of the tube....
Bob |
LOL...
simple but efective |
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_________________ Career Infinity PCP .22
Webley Patriot .25
Hatsan mod 75 .22
Hatsan mod 99 .177 (Quattro & SAS)
Kral underlever .177
.............................................
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| | | | | | | | | MRod Min Max Settings | | | | | |
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:06 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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Ok its messy but It's done. Just so the info is clear I'm using the terms Hammer Spring Preload(HSP) to me the max setting is all the way CW until the adjuster runs out of threads. Min is CCW until it locks up against shoulder. For Hammer Fall(HF) CCW until head of striker bottoms on hammer is Max fall, CW 10(.357") rotations is Min fall. Hope this makes sense.
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
Rod |
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:10 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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Forgot to put on the graph all shots with JSB Heavys 18.1gr |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
Rod |
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:26 am |
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rsterne |
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So if I can summarize (please check to make sure I read the graph right as I'm colour-blind).... The peak of each velocity curve is:
Max Preload, Max Fall: 950 fps @ 2800 psi
Max Preload, Min Fall: 850 fps @ 2000 psi
Min Preload, Max Fall: 830 fps @ 1800 psi
Min Preload, Min Fall: 760 fps @ 1500 psi
I'm surprised that the MRod has such a narrow range of adjustment.... I guess the major adjustment is the transfer port restrictor.... I am used to being able to go from about 600 fps to 1000 fps with just the preload adjuster.... and no fall adjustment....
Thanks for running the tests.... I will study them and see if I can learn how the two interact....
Bob |
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_________________ Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal: Too many to count! |
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:31 pm |
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69Hotrod69 |
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When I first got the MRod I was very suprised as well at the lack of adjustment of the Hammer Spring. It seems to me that it would be beneficial even with the port restrictor to have more adjustment on the hammer spring. It also looks like to me the degassing tool was an after thought and they comprimised the Hammer Spring Adjustment for the degaassing threads. I still think the effects on effeciency delivered by varying the Hammer Fall is interesting. So far I find the port restrictor very good at making the short barrel of the MRod very effecient, you get a lot of power with little air when all three are balanced well. It's a real shame the barrel is soo bad!! I ordered another Barrel to see if I can get it to group, but even if that happens it will still most likely be very pellet specific. I've had such good luck with the 2260 Barrels that I may put one on it if I can't get the new barrel to work. Or Ill have to save up for an HW or LW barrel.
I did not know You were color defecient next time I'll take that into consideration when I make a graph.
You read it perfectly though, except for the Max Max which accured at 3000PSI. which I'm sure was just an oversight.
Did this help you at all on your design? I should be getting my Challenger 2009 hammer any day then I'll put together My new FT rifle. When its done I can do some numbers on it as well. It will be built with your RVA so It will have lots of adjustment.
I don't know how far you have got on your port adjustment design but I have some ideas if your going to put it in the breech I did a couple of drawings if interested? |
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_________________ Close doesn't cut it! In Fishing or Shooting!
Rod |
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