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mod90 · Veteran Member

Ok here's the question. I recently bought a rifle case & had it shipped to Miami. Case got to where it was going w/out a hitch or glitch. Then it is to be shipped out of Miami to Trinidad. But for some reason, the shipping company said they couldn't ship it out & have to put it on hold, because it's considered arms & arms parts. This is an empty case I'm talking about. Essentially just a box with 2 layers of foam. Then I send them a copy of my permit, and suddenly they release What I'm trying to figure out is if there is a permit needed to export such things. I know there is a licence that a shipping company needs to have to move guns ammunition & explosives. But as I said I'm talking about an empty fiberglass box with foam & a few latches.
Anyone got any ideas?

SMP · Silver Status Member

Sounds like the shipper was being overly cautious. I don't know of any law on the US end that would affect gun cases or even most firearm parts.
The shipper may have been reacting to the laws on your end though. International shippers all have a list of no go items for each country they ship to.

They probably read Firearm case.

Coming from the US all ammunition (even pellets) and barrels require permits. 50cal barrels are not allowed to be shipped out of the US even with a permit.

And thats about all I know of

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Exports from the US often require 'permits'. I was unaware that lead pellets were being considered regulated at this point- is there a reference source for this so I can look into it?

Firearms, optics and live ammunition require permits certainly- but I have never heard of gun cases being an issue. That being said, alot of people in the shipping business really don't know the law- they hear one thing and apply it to everything 'just to be safe'- if it/it's use can be applied to anything "gun" they refuse to deal with it. The worst companies for this are typically the big-name couriers, UPS, Fedex, etc.

You mention you produced a 'permit' to show the shipper- what type of permit are we talking about? Permits to Export any "firearm" product are issued by the Department of Commerce to a vendor/shipper in the US in conjunction with the receiver in the other country- as in the permit is not specific to just the Exporter in the US or the Importer in the other country- but to both "mutually"- it does not give the US Exporter the ability to ship the same items to someone else- only the approved customer in the other country- the permit is effectively issued to BOTH parties (US shipper and foreign receiver) and cannot be used for anything other than freight movement between the two, no one else. So- this leads me to believe (these permits have a $250.00 filing fee with the DOC and take weeks to process and are only good for up to 2 years) that whatever 'permit' you produced really didn't satisfy any requirement- but as the shipper has no idea what they should be doing, they took it.

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

I buy airgun parts from Archer Airguns including Barrels valves and Co2 compression tubes, and I have no problem at all, although the outfit is owned by an English guy.

But just recently I ordered a mini pressure gauge from a US company and was told that as I was not an approved customer, and they cancelled the order, I went to another company http://www.zdspb.com/ and had no problems whatsoever.

Al

mod90 · Veteran Member

Yeah Eric, alot of shippers are annoyingly over cautious.The permit I mentioned was issued to me where I am right now in Trinidad. I have a permit to import both a rifle & scope. This is why mentioned if they would need a licence/permit to export such things from the US, since I as their client already have a permit to import said things into Trinidad it would not be a problem on this end of the transaction.

But as an update, as of this morning, they've packed & shipped the case, so anyone's guess on their logic would be better than mine at this point. I just hate political bureaucratic red tape.

SMP · Silver Status Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

I don't believe lead pellets with no caps or casings qualify as "ammunition"- although a decent US government source defining "ammunition" precisely would be useful- haven't found one yet, however.

mod90 · Veteran Member

I don't think you'll find that definition. I believe most countries try to keep that definition as vague as possible with the intent to twist it's meanings when it suits them. Now by general definition in the English language, ammunition is any object that may be used by itself or in conjunction with another object or material to be launched or discharged from a gun or arms designed to or capable of launching said object and or material with the intention of damaging or destroying a target. So for all intents & purposes, pellets are actually considered ammunition by definition.

mod90 · Veteran Member

I got to stop hangin out with my lawyer.

SMP · Silver Status Member

Lol...absolutely.....unless he usually pays for drinks