Air Gun Home :: View topic - ok here is a can of worms I just gotta open

jimineecricket · Member

Can anyone out their talk to me intelegently on LDC's, brakes, and shrouds. For air rifles. I know you need some kind of stamp to own a "silincer" but I see alot of manufacures now have silincers moderatiors and shrouds on thier rifles. Then people throw in the word permanently mounted. Like the marauder All I got to do is unscrew the shroud and its off. nothing permanet there. THere a few places that offer a shroud/moderator but say it has to be done at there facility and permanetly mounted to be leagal. Then I see adds all time for LDC. It is all confusing to me. Then lastly the 22XX modders out there all have shrouds some so short I can hardly call it a shroud. What is the diff. what is legal with out a stamp or permit or what ever you need. Can I shroud a riflle that has no origanil shroud??? any knowledgable in put would be appreciated.

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

This is an International airgun forum and as such Silencers, Shrouds and LDC’s, can be talked about to your heart's content, but anything you do must abide by the laws of the country you live in.

As far as I know you can fit a silencer or shroud legally in the USA in most States for a fee of $200, also the attachment has to be registered, or something like that from what I understand.

Al

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Technically speaking, for the US- suppressors ("silencer" is an incorrect term") require a license from the BATF. The fee to try and acquire such a license is $200.00 or thereabouts- and even if they do not grant a license, they keep the $200.00 fee.

The conventional view is that the BATF does not consider any airguns to be "firearms" and has thus essentially ignored them (which some states or municipalities may have other laws governing) in respect to suppressor laws.

That being said, it somehow came about a few years back that the BATF would not consider a suppressor on an airgun worthy of a license unless it was removable/transferable to a "true" powder-burning firearm. I don't know that this was ever a Ruling/Determination by the BATF, but this seemed to be the rationalization behind alot of non-US companies sending products to the US market with built-in, or "non-removable" suppressors- i.e. AirArms, AirForce, Gamo.

Then, along comes Crosman, a US-based company, and the Marauder, and now the newer .357 cal Rogue w/suppressor. Crosman does have some sort of lawyers/legal people (I have no idea who or where they are) and in my experience in how they interpret laws in other markets (i.e. Canada, Europe, etc.) where airgun laws are different than the U.S., they seem to make simplistic, often somewhat incorrect determinations as to what these foreign laws are/how to meet them. I would hope that they are not quite as quick in making opinions for US laws (i.e. their home territory)- but based on the Marauder and Rogue, it seems they are following the same logic as the foreign companies- if the suppressor cannot be removed and installed on a powderburner, it doesn't require a BATF license. Which, if we look at the design of the Marauder suppressor (I can't speak for the Rogue)- removing the shroud and installing it on a powderburner would not work- the shroud mounts/caps/baffles would all melt if installed on a powderburner- thus it is "non-transferable".

jimineecricket · Member

So building say a 22xx and putting on a shroud just like they do on a mrod would be ok according to how I interpret what you said. it is still a bit confusing to me. But what laws aren't !?!? Well that sort of helps. anyone else shed some more light on this subject.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Gippeto · Member

Calling them (BATF) directly would be my advice. The best (and often the most correct) information is that which is taken closest to the source.

Otherwise...google found this;

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305998

justsayno · Member

Keep calling the feds, and some dimocrate will realize, we all should be paying a tax on these. I'd keep my mouth shut if I was you.. enjoy it., they are letting us have them without bling in their pocket.

Thats my 2 cents.

Does this help?

jimineecricket · Member

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

One of the many good points about living in Idaho... If I's made in Idaho and stays in Idaho... BATF can KMA.....

Silence is golden... even on my burners...

Slavia · Moderator

jimineecricket · Member

jimineecricket · Member

I contacted a few of the guys making LDC wondering about the leaglities. Here is some info the passed along take it fo what ever its worth to you.

Jim if you take the letter of the law the shroud is as illegal as an LDC, but as far as the LDC issue goes a court recently overturned a conviction of someone for having an illegal LDC stating that they are legal on air rifles, they only become silencers, which are illegal when they are used on a fire arm. The ATF does not want anything to do with air rifles as they are not fire arms, but ATF says that anything that can be used or modified to work on a fire arm to make it quieter is considered a silencer. That is the problem, the wording is so broad that almost anything can be used to make a gun quieter, even a potato or a plastic bottle, so the court ruled that it is the person who alters it or uses it on the fire arm who is guilty, stating it is the intent that makes the guilt. So if you never intend to use it on a fire arm there is no intent and you should be fine, just as an LDC could be modified to use on a fire arm, so can your shroud.

Jim the way the law is worded it is very bad, at least the court ruling overturned a conviction and said that it was not illegal to have a suppressor on an air rifle, it was only illegal to put one on a fire arm without a license and illegal to make them for a fire arm without a license. There are a lot of people who read into the law literally and accuse us of breaking the law, but I point out to them the court ruling and the fact that almost anything can be used to make a gun quieter, even a dishcloth over the end of the barrel. They have to use some common sense and understand that an air rifle by definition is not a fire arm and so it is not included in the same laws that apply to fire arms

Seems to me to be true if crossman can make a shourd how is it any different than a LDC. I can easily take off my shroud on my MROD and I am sure anybody could modify it if they wanted to to fit what ever they wanted to. Just cuase it is longer doesnt make it any different IMO Look at FX OR BSA they sell in the states ANyhow thought I would share hope it helps.

RVTMaverick · Member

Hey Guys,

Sorry for this question as it seems everyone here knows what "LDC" means but me? Embarassed

I'm sure as soon as someone says what it is.... I'll say DUOOOOOO Laughing

FWIW: The way I read it, it's not a problem as long as they (suppressors) never goes onto one of the Fire Arms in Your War Chest Wink

I've said it for Years,.. All these Gun Laws.... The ONLY People they effect are the Honest people anyhow, as WE ALL know the Criminal is Very concerned about the Laws of the land! Rolling Eyes

Peace Jeff

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

LDC stands for Lead Dust Collector.

Only don't tell the Fed's

Al Mr. Green

RVTMaverick · Member