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Air Gun Home Forum Index » The BS Topic » Phantom? Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  Phantom?   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:32 am broommaster2000 Moderator Joined: 10 Mar 2007 Posts: 5714 Location: City of Groningen, Groningen, The Netherlands I couldn't help noticing that for the past few weeks, most new topic were about the Crosman Phantom. I don't really mind the gun, but am I the only one that finds it a bit over the top, for every little thing a new topic? _________________ BIG GAP   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:49 am Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND I'm with you Broom, but you have got to remember that Crosman are the holy grail of airguns in north America, although when compaired with European airguns they are Crap! But you have got to give it to Crosman they are very clever selling an airgun, that you have to take apart and mend before it works, and people fall for it. I mean if you buy a crappy QB78 you expect to take it apart to make it work properly, there again if you think about it where is the Phantom made? Well blow me China!!!! That should fill a few columns from the devoted, so you may as well go on your holidays now Broom, I will all be over in a few weeks, when you come back. I think I’ll join you. Al _________________ Re: Phantom?   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:39 pm The outdoorsman Veteran Member Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 240 Location: Canada broommaster2000 wrote: most new topic were about the Crosman Phantom a bit over the top, for every little thing a new topic? i'm not sure but i think you just started another one.... and alstone if you had the phantom u might be sayin different stuff besides, they don't sell them as over priced here as they do there what is the price of a 2260 there? or maby you know it buy rabbitstopper. they run about 80 bucks here yes compaired to companies like weihrauch but then again look at the price! as well crosman guns are made for beginers starter guns, don't get me wrong they do have an appeal to more experianced a.g.ers with certain models but for a cheap price you have to admit they are a decent buy as for the part about havin to fix the gun before you buy it ha! that is a load of Bs in my opinion, i have a 2240 38T and 2200 magnum all of em worked out o the box..have you really dealt with any crosman guns ? don't compair a cadlac to a beattle... _________________ ' I dont think of the audiance as anything different than me, you have to seduce the audiance ya cant beat'em and ya cant kiss their a$$" Harison Ford   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:24 pm Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND You miss the point outdoorsman, and that is the devotion of air gunners in north America to Crosman, nothing to do with price or anything else. Al _________________ Re: Phantom?   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:16 pm AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6908 Location: "Out There" The outdoorsman wrote: broommaster2000 wrote: most new topic were about the Crosman Phantom a bit over the top, for every little thing a new topic? i'm not sure but i think you just started another one.... har har- I think he's got you there, Broommaster- you started this one. As for the Crosman "thing" in North America- yes, it is a bit different (for many people here too). The greater proportion of the Crosman guns these days are far from perfect out of the box- but they are cheap (the Phantoms are the equivalent to about 48 Euros or UK pounds) and when bought by someone who isn't familiar with airguns they likely can't tell it needs improvements. For those that do recognize it for what it is- thus the topics on improvements. Alot of you guys in Europe seem to have milling machines and lathes in your home workshops- that is not at all common in North America. So what can we do? Buy a lathe, then learn machining from the internet so we can build nifty little devices like silencers (oops- that might be a problem)? Maybe. Or, alot of us could buy cheap guns and try to turn them into reasonably decent shooters with the least amount of expense and out-of-reach home workshop modifications. Crosman fits this bill very well, because of its lower pricing structure and because the parts are easy to get. Beeman guns (the lower end stuff) are more expensive and parts are almost impossible to obtain if someone makes an error modifying something. Look at some of the more mid-level guns- i.e. AirForce and the like- people still take those apart to make improvements where possible. This is not to say one model of gun needs to have multiple threads on it- but such is the way it is sometimes. I might also add that I believe Broommaster had 5 or 6 different topics going awhile back on his Umarex AM850- so let's be careful on the pot calling the kettle black, right?   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:48 pm lauchlin Supporting Member Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 184 Location: Vancouver Island BC Well i have to go buy one just to see what all the fuss is about .For the money i think there a great deal Last edited by lauchlin on Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:05 pm; edited 2 times in total Re: Phantom?   Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:03 pm Mar Veteran Member Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 428 Location: Victoria, BC broommaster2000 wrote: I couldn't help noticing that for the past few weeks, most new topic were about the Crosman Phantom. I don't really mind the gun, but am I the only one that finds it a bit over the top, for every little thing a new topic? I don't mind the gun either, just useless threads like this one.   Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:48 am Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND I don't think anyone's having a go at Crosman as such, they make airguns at a price which if they didn't do it someone else would. It's just that when you look at how they are treated as the corner stone of airguns, especially when you look at it from the rest of the world where 95% of the airguns come from. It's a diffrent world out here. Al _________________ Re: Phantom?   Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:43 am broommaster2000 Moderator Joined: 10 Mar 2007 Posts: 5714 Location: City of Groningen, Groningen, The Netherlands AirGunEric wrote: The outdoorsman wrote: broommaster2000 wrote: most new topic were about the Crosman Phantom a bit over the top, for every little thing a new topic? i'm not sure but i think you just started another one.... har har- I think he's got you there, Broommaster- you started this one. As for the Crosman "thing" in North America- yes, it is a bit different (for many people here too). The greater proportion of the Crosman guns these days are far from perfect out of the box- but they are cheap (the Phantoms are the equivalent to about 48 Euros or UK pounds) and when bought by someone who isn't familiar with airguns they likely can't tell it needs improvements. For those that do recognize it for what it is- thus the topics on improvements. Alot of you guys in Europe seem to have milling machines and lathes in your home workshops- that is not at all common in North America. So what can we do? Buy a lathe, then learn machining from the internet so we can build nifty little devices like silencers (oops- that might be a problem)? Maybe. Or, alot of us could buy cheap guns and try to turn them into reasonably decent shooters with the least amount of expense and out-of-reach home workshop modifications. Crosman fits this bill very well, because of its lower pricing structure and because the parts are easy to get. Beeman guns (the lower end stuff) are more expensive and parts are almost impossible to obtain if someone makes an error modifying something. Look at some of the more mid-level guns- i.e. AirForce and the like- people still take those apart to make improvements where possible. This is not to say one model of gun needs to have multiple threads on it- but such is the way it is sometimes. I might also add that I believe Broommaster had 5 or 6 different topics going awhile back on his Umarex AM850- so let's be careful on the pot calling the kettle black, right? Agreed, I apologise. I can fully understand the enthusiasm for an airgun. I too, find it hard to keep myself restrained when I just got a new airgun. I didn't mean it as an attack or anything. I usually find it hard to even place the topic in the right place. I don't have a workshop. I tend to buy a good gun in the first place. I think that when you buy something, an airgun, or a car, or a fishing rod, at least you should check out what the those products are really worth. If you start of with a good gun in the first place, improvements will only lead to a better gun in general. Buying a bad gun and turning it "decent" doesn't really appeal to me. Also, I never buy something new. Used things are, to me, more interesting. _________________ BIG GAP   Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:24 am AirGunEric Site Admin Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 6908 Location: "Out There" Alstone wrote: It's just that when you look at how they are treated as the corner stone of airguns Obviously, some people think of Crosman as some sort of "cornerstone"- although I don't think that is necessarily the case here- just a cheaply-priced gun that can be modified cheaply into something better- i.e. a total cost of around $125.00 US, with some effort, can approach the shooting abilities of guns usually double or triple that price. However, perhaps from one perspective Crosman could be considered a 'cornerstone'- it has been around for nearly 100 years as a company, and these days it is producing cheaply priced guns that perform reasonably (I say that with some reservation)- so perhaps it can be looked at as the cornerstone of the market- at least in respect of the near-bottom-end. As for people in North America, Daisy and Crosman have really been the only mass-market domestic producers of airguns up until very recently with newer companies like AirForce and such coming out- so there is perhaps a bit of a sense of loyalty or enhanced interest in respect to their offerings. The fact they are easily accessed- both to purchase initially and to buy parts after-the-fact, aids in keeping them popular. broommaster2000 wrote: I don't have a workshop. I tend to buy a good gun in the first place. I think that when you buy something, an airgun, or a car, or a fishing rod, at least you should check out what the those products are really worth. That would be the issue here- Crosman products are generally "cheap" in North America. For someone in the UK as an example, and the same $89 USD Crosman gun costs £150.00- that statement starts to become much more meaningful. _________________ ` I'd say "I care." But I'd be lying. Canadian Airgun Supplier: http://www.scopesandammo.com/storefront   Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:43 pm The outdoorsman Veteran Member Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 240 Location: Canada where did this fishing rod stuff come from? if anyone knows anything about fishing it's me believe me! _________________ ' I dont think of the audiance as anything different than me, you have to seduce the audiance ya cant beat'em and ya cant kiss their a$$" Harison Ford   Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:50 pm StevieLaner7777 Moderator Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 1060 Location: Herefordshire, UK This guy knows his fishing but not much about flammable fuels lols! Broom was using the fishing rod as an example of a purchase that requires thought and careful selection before bought. Stevie _________________ "Who Dares Wins" - SAS 22nd Regiment Hereford.   Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:21 am 2RCHA Veteran Member Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 195 Location: The Big Smoke, Ontario I'll put my Tac1 Extreme up against any "Euro" model any day,,,Gee, How many of thos "Euro" gun's are still made in Europe,,not many,less and less as the years go by, and China is starting to catch up in the Quality, and Designing dept,the latest offering's from the far east rival anything coming out of Europe these day's, and in my opinion will easily surpass them in all dept soon,,too soon for some . _________________ QB78-D w/Fitco 4-16x44CE 2x,XS B4-2a .177/.22 w/Fitco 3-9x40 XS B2-2a .22 w/Simmons 3-9x40 XS B9-1 w/AimPoint CompM2 TAC1 Extreme w/Tasco 3-9x40/Var,. Kit 2240/2289g w/Fitco 3-12x40K-GD Gamo Recon w/ Fitco 2-7x32k QB-57Deluxe .22 w/Fitco 2-7x32k   Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:13 am broommaster2000 Moderator Joined: 10 Mar 2007 Posts: 5714 Location: City of Groningen, Groningen, The Netherlands Well, Slavia's are very affordable rifles too, remember? (Over here they are). I think out of the Box Slavia's will be a bit better then Phantoms, while in Europe, they are more or less the same price. I bet my second hand Slavia 630 that cost me much less then a new Crosman Phantom can beat most things under the quality of a Weihrauch HW30S. We must soon put it to the test! _________________ BIG GAP   Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:35 pm Alstone Moderator & Site Supporter Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 4139 Location: Linconshire, ENGLAND Hi 2RCHA I think you will find that apart from Webley who now make airguns in Turkey, the rest of british airguns are still made in England, and that includes Air Arms, BSA, Daystate, Falcon, Logun, Parker Hale and Weihrauch on the continent, and to put a Crosman in the same category as these is laughable. and as for China making guns for UK brand names, the gun manufactures know that it would be the death of there company, as Webley are finding out. Plus Crosman farms out there manufacturing to the far east because there policy is stack em high and sell them cheap, which there is nothing wrong with that, but they are not high quality guns. 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