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cheez · Member

New guy to airguns here. Not new to rifles and scopes by any means though. I recently traded for a new Gamo Hunter Extreme in .177. It came with a 3 x 9 x 50 BSA with illuminated mil dot. I have had bad experiences with BSA scopes in the past so I am thinking that this one may give problems as well. I have only shot about 50 rounds through the rifle and the accuracy seems fair for not shooting off a bench. Probably 1 -1/2 inch groups with the PBA pellets at 25 yards and about 1 inch groups with some match grade lead pellets. So far I am not experiencing the horror stories I have read here and other places about the rifle. Hopefully I got a good one. I don't mind changing the scope if I need to but I only want to do it once. Any reccommendations on a scope that will stand up to the punishment of this rifle will be greatly appreciated.

Slavia · Moderator

Welcome to the forum, cheez.

I wouldn't write off all BSA scopes - I have had one on a springer for several years now, and it's still going strong. As long as it's rated for springer use you should be fine. (Springers have recoil in two directions - regular rifle scope reticles are only braced for one direction.)

Crosman140 · Senior Member

cheez · Member

I'd skip using the fancy-schmancy (nice technical terminology, eh?) PBA light weight pellets and just use a good lead pellet. The PBA's were created to be lighter weight in order to increase velocity. But this can be hard on springers according to some shooters.

Keep on using the BSA scope. A lot of people use them with success. If you have problems with it in the future, just be sure as mentioned above that you replace it with a scope that is rated for a springer rifle with double recoil. A springer has the ability to tear apart even the best of scopes if they are not rated for the dual-direction recoil the a spring-air rifle delivers.[/quote]

Thanks for the welcome crosman. I only plan to shoot up the PBA's that came with the rifle. I have already bought several different pellets to see what my rifle likes the most. I do plan to leave the BSA on as long as it works well. Since I am new to airguns I do not know what brand/type of scope will take the punishment. I want to know ahead of time what to buy. I just don't have much confidence in the BSA.

walter · Veteran Member

i believe the hunter extreme is rated at some where around 1500 fps with crap pba. i woulg shoot the heaviest lead you can find of a good quality. the closer you get to around 1000 fps the accuracy should improve. keeping it below the speed of sound will pay off in tighter groups i would think. with that much power, you should be able to shoot super heavy 177 cal. pellets and have a huge thump to critters and good accuracy for target plinking. good luck. lets see some pics. leapers are supposed to be pretty good and hawke i have heard good things about. they advertise magnum springer rated and you have a magnum springer for sure! Twisted Evil

walt.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Thinking about this of late, and drawing upon my experiences over the last few years- I'm thinking there may be a combination of factors that result in this frequent line of questions regarding scope viability behind springers, and even more specifically behind magnum-class springers.

So:

When did this "scope killer" idea first start appearing? To the best of my ability to determine, somewhere around 20-25 years ago when the first sorts of "low end" and common rifle scopes starting coming to market and spring-powered airguns were starting to exceed the 600fps powerpoint (in .22 cal).

Does this "airgun rated" scope idea hold merit? Yes, I believe it does- especially so in the case of hard hitting springers such as the Diana 350 or 460 (or their Chinese clones), perhaps also the Benjamin SuperStreak and the Gamo Extreme.

However, that being said- it seems obvious too that some manufacturers- perhaps BSA (owned by Gamo now), Hawke and others, may have mis-labeled some of their scopes as "airgun rated" when in fact they are insufficiently set-up for use behind a modern magnum-class springer. The same could be said of many scopes that are not well padded/insulated- "airgun" rated or not. A poorly-built scope (and they come in all price classes) will not stand up behind a heavy-impact magnum springer, airgun-rated or not. This is where some experience comes into play.

I have been disappointed by more than one "airgun rated" scope not being able to stand up behind a magnum-class springer, and pleasantly surprised by some scopes, not "airgun rated" holding up in similar circumstances. Both high-end scopes (not airgun rated) that have held up, and some "low end" (airgun or not airgun rated) scopes that have held up wonderfully. (As well as both high- and low-end scopes not holding up, no matter what their "rating"). The only generic rules, at least as it applies to scopes below the $250.00 price point, is that the lighter the weight (in an expensive scope, lighter weight might be indicative of the glass quality, but this does not appear to be a factor below $250.00- low weight generally seems to indicate money-saving techniques, not necessarily quality-enhancing techniques), the more parts (i.e. the greater the magnification range) and the more "gimmicks" on the scope- the more likely it seems to fail. As a comparison- I have found heavier-weight, single magnification 4x, 6x, "lower end"" (at least price-point-wise) "compact" scopes with no gimmicks (AO, Illuminated reticle, etc.) and no airgun-rating to hold up quite well behind all springers. By the same logic, some (not all) of the "big name" scopes not rated for airgun-use but that cost $400.00 seem to hold up well.

So, bottom line, from my experience at least, if using a scope on a magnum-class springer, forget its "airgun" rating or lack thereof and stick to things like a set magnification (or at least a relatively low magnification range spread- i.e. 4-6x, 2-7x, 3-9x), few "gimmicks" and smaller physical size. If you have a scope that comes with as part of rifle package- use it and see if it blows up. If it does, get a replacement under warranty and then get the right scope for the rifle, sell the other one to a firearm- or non-magnum class springer-equipped person. But, don't worry about it beforehand- there is absolutely no point in worrying about what hasn't yet occurred. In this case, maybe the BSA scope will hold up wonderfully, maybe it won't- only one way to find out...

walter · Veteran Member

i purchased a leapers 3x9x40 scope recently that does not have a ir or any other gimicky stuff and shook the rear lens loose from use on my 97k which i didnt think was a magnum powered rifle. kinda dissapointed that its supposed to by true strenght and all that and broke before reaching 1000 pellets. Shocked

it still seems to hold zero ok but kinda annoying to have loose glass in the rear flopping around. i will most likely return it for something better. i gues you never know. Rolling Eyes

i figured if i wasnt going to be doing much more than back yard fun i wouldnt need to spend a ton of money on a expensive scope. i may have been wrong. Embarassed

lesson learned. walt.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Walter: Every Leapers scope (it seems anyways) is called a "True Strength" unit- just another marketing gimmick. This is not to say there isn't another, not so pricey Leapers that will hold up- the question is which one?

GrizzlyMan · Member

Gamo and BSA are terrible.

Bought a cheap $30.00 Winchester 4x32 which is solid piece of glass, very amazed by the sharpness and contrast. Only downtake is the quality of the rings, throw them away and get good beefy 4 bolt rings.

rsterne · Moderator

It is true that all the modern Leapers scopes are called "True Strength".... but they are also 5th generation.... I have heard of problems with the early models.... but the current ones were tested on a Webley Patriot and I had no problems with the 3-9 x 40 AO IR I had on my B-28.... Mind you, I only shot it for 400 rounds before I sold the gun (with the scope).... Time will tell how long it lasts, I guess....

Bob

yourdaddyjoe · Supporting Member

I think your on to something there Eric Re: low power scopes..

I have 3 BSA's from the Mil-dot line for apx 2 years now...

3-9x40
4-16x40
6-24x40 Ilum..

The only one that I have had any issue is the most powerful... I have two specks inside the lens area floating around... yet it still holds zero...

By far the 3-9x40 has the brightest and clearest optics... it's mounted on top my all around HPA 2260 Disco Wanabe Carbine... Never had any issue with it and have taken more whistle pigs with this set up than any other...

The 4-16x40 sits atop my Ruger 10-22 Rimfire...

The 6-24x40 is mounted on Black Betty, "My Bench b!tch" which, without a over kill muzzle break and firm grip, it will rock off it's bi-pod when firing... Over all it produces the highest shock load of any of my Air Guns... The scope is over kill magnification for just about any air gun... The field of view is so narow at @ 24x it's almost useless in aquiring your target...

I would not heasitate to buy another BSA for my next Air Gun... Maybe even from the Contender line so I can have the side focus... But... It will defo. be of low magnification... 100% happy with 3-9x

Rings & mounts are everthing... the heavier the beter... I personaly like Weaver Brand Steel rings... Zero issues so far...

Just don't ask me to buy a Gamo air gun... It ain't happening... Twisted Evil

rsterne · Moderator

Thr brightness mostly comes down to objective size and magnification.... Divide the objective diameter (40mm) by the magnification and you will get the diameter of the "exit pupil".... which if you hold the scope out at arms length is the bright circle of light coming out towards your eye....

The human eye can open up to 7mm in darkness.... and it is over 5mm in dim shooting conditions (dawn and dusk).... therefore, for those conditions you need an exit pupil of over 5mm.... and 7mm is better.... Even in bright light, the pupil in your eye is about 2mm.... so you will notice a dimming with any exit pupil less that....

In Joe's case the objective is 40mm.... at 6X, all the scopes should be the same brightness (assuming equal optical quality).... and the exit pupil would be 6.7mm.... good for virtually any conditions except pitch black.... Crank the power up to the maximum, however.... and the 3-9 (at 9X) is down to 4.4mm.... the 4-16 (at 16X) is down to 2.5mm.... and the 6-24 (at 24X) is down to just 1.6mm.... Even in bright light, you will be able to see the image in the 6-24X dim as you go above about 20X as there is just not enough light getting through....

If you want lots of magnification.... you need a big objective.... A 6-24 x 50mm would be the minimum size objective for bright days.... Likewise, a 4-16 x 50mm would be vastly superior to the 4-16 X 40mm for most shooting at 16X.... When it comes to scope brightness.... you need to stick to lower magnification.... or buy a BIG scope.... Mr. Green

Bob

kanyon · Silver Status Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Slavia · Moderator