Air Gun Home :: View topic

Jaxom · Senior Member

When I first came to these forums I was looking for advice on how to better my shooting ablities in order to put food on the table. Part of this was to see if there was any tunes or modifications I could do to my 1077 that I own.

While there are some nominal tunes that can be done with this rifle, I came rather quickly to the conclustion that it would be best to start from scratch with something else that I could gain more ablity from. And after extensive reading and asking questions I settled on the 22xx series of crosman ags.

My first project, is to bulk, modify and tune a custom version of this series. I recieved my 2300 from crosman late february. So far I've ordered and recieved discovery springs from crosman's parts department and a hammer debounce sleeve from Airguns of AZ.

I have a big weld project coming next week and I'm hoping to order the extended bolt and delrin valve piston and if I'm lucky a boss bulk flow valve once that project is comeplete.

Then once I get all my bulking parts and other accesories I've discussed with our resident 22xx guru Joe, I'm gonna do a complete tear down, rebuild with lotsa photos to be posted on here. (wish I had a chrono to give before and after numbers, who knows, I might wait until I have that so I can give a report on the overal improvments).

Anyways... For mysecond project I had though about doing a "sniper" version of a 22xx. But now I've changed my mind a bit. First off, it's been done before. Secondly, I want a rifle with a bit more punch then even a modfied 22xx can give. Ultimatly I'm looking at a rifle that can at a reasonable distance, accuratly hit racoon/turky/goose/possum sized game. And do so humanely.

So, again after doing some research on here, I've decided upon using a discover as my new "base" to be modified and tuned. From what i've read, it's a pretty good rifle out of the box. And with some simple mods/tunes simlar to those done to the 22xx group, can be made even better.

To get that bit extra "kick" that I'm seeking, I would like to switch calibers to .25. Although it's just a small size change in caliber of only .03", the heavier pellets will hit harder, which should be appropriate for the size game I'm looking at.

So that would have to be my first question. I know I can get a .25 caliber ag barrel made by Lother-Walther. But how hard will it be to modify the reciver to accept the barrel?

Other mods/tunes I'm concidering. This time about, since the bulk area on disco's are forward of the reiever, I want to use a hammer spring power adjuster. The hammer debounce device for my 22xx will work on a discover also. Extended bolt of course would be good.

Since I'm just beginning to gather the information on discovery's. Does anyone make a quality aftermarket bulk flow valve for them?

What other mods or tunes are suggested for these rifles over all?

Thanks,

Jax

BBGun Bob · Veteran Member

Jax
Rich in Mich.(http://home.comcast.net/~peterdragin/index.html/) will do a L/W .25 Barrel Conversion with choke for you on your Disco.Don't quote me but it will probably be around $100 bucks.It would be wise to e-mail him some questions such as best barrel length for your range of application,price and what you will need to do.He has done custom barrels for me in the past and his work is #1 and prices are very cheap.He is a talented machinist with all the equipment to get the job done properly .Needless to say I recommend him very strongly when it comes to advanced tunes and barrel swaps.
Ask before you buy a Disco which caliber to buy before you make your purchase.There are reasons to know what it takes to do a proper barrel swap for a certain caliber,he has the answers and why.
I have one of his old .177 Disco's that will shoot flys off dog doo at 75ft. and hit a dime at 50 yards if I do my part of course.
Give him a hollar,I am sure he is the man to answer your questions.

BBGun Bob

fritz · Silver Status Member

Jaxom, have you thought of SELLING your creations? You could probably make a $100 here and there doing that.

I don't agree with moving up to .25, mainly because of cost and availability.

What do you mean bulk flow valve? I don't think anyone actually shoots their disco on CO2.

I think you can just do the basic mods to discos like 22xx. Springs, polish, lube, open up ports, ect.

Jaxom · Senior Member

Fritz,

Now there's an idea! I was really, per my post in the general forum thinkin of building rifles. But since 2240's specifcally are sooo darn cheap, and parts readily aviable...hhmmm

I may be no expert at doing these things, but I'm not afraid to give it a try. With practice you can learn anything you want to, right? But there are some that want something "NOW" and not have to fiddle with it in order to make it work the way they want...could be an interesting niche to fill.

When I speak of a "bulkflow" I'm leaning towards something that's been modified/tuned so as to flow a gas, in this case comressed air more efficently then when it was orginally desinged to.

A simlar premise would be a cold air induction system for most cars that you can install these days.

As far as pellet avalibity. Because I have interstes in larger bored calibers down the road, I'm VERY intersted in learning about swagging my own pellets. So that would pretty much elimnate that issue.

sniper · Silver Status Member

i agree with fritz, however, what would the numbers be on a .25 disco????

that would be fun on a rat at 20 feet. Twisted Evil

Jaxom · Senior Member

Ya know, I'm REALLY concidering what Fritz had to say about selling my creations. Now I'm not about to sell this first custom job. I need it to do what I've wanted it to do all along....put food on the table!

First off, to sell anything I'd have to become "expert" on that subject. That's no real biggy, you can learn ANYTHING once you put your mind to it. It's what I'm trying to become an expert on that is an issue. To start out simple stupid, I'd want to stick with the 22xx's to begin with. and as buiness expanded, expand out from there to include other ag's.

But I have wee little problem with the 22xx ag's. And that's my state! They just changed the rules to requiring a foi card for ANY ag that shoots over 700fps or over .177 caliber. If it had remained just the fps rating instead of mentioning the caliber too, I'd have no problem. Most stock 22xx only shoot in the 500fps range.

We've discussed this before on these forums. Online ag retailers very. Some will actually ship to me, other's won't. Prime example is everyone's favorite... Pyramid, they won't ship to me.

Even more strange is Crosman! They shipped me a 2300kt, but won't ship a Marauder to me!

In order for me to buy any ag that meet or exceed the above specifications, I would have to buy them through an licenced gun broker, or gun shop. Because of stupid laws like not allowing a gun shop to be within a mile of a school (even if it's a pre-school!), many gun shops around here have gone under. The one I deal with the most, charges through the nose on ANY gun ordered. Prime example is the 2250xt, I had concidered prior to buying my 2300. They quoated me a priced of $165!!! That's $45 above the retail price!!! One hell of a profit just to sign ups package tracker thingie!

Now, let's say for a moment that I resolve that issue, the next issue I'd have to as is.... Is there a market for this? Yes I know 22xx are a very popular series of ag's. And it's true there are some people that don't have any interest in tweaking, moding, tuning their ag's. They just want it to work well "out of the box".

But would the be willing to pay for the service?

Let's look at my 2300kt for a moment....

$110 from crosman for pistol.
$20 for Hammer debounce device from Airguns of Arizona.
$36 for boss max flow from bryan and assoc
$15 for an extended bolt from Mountain air
$10 for delrin valve stem from Mountain air
$20 for some discovery hammer springs from Crosman
$125 for the rest of the parts I've been talking to Joe about. (amount approximate, because he keeps inventing new gagets that I need!)

That comes out to $336 (approx) because I haven't use exact totals. A brand new discovery from Airguns of Arizona is only $250. Which would you buy? That doesn't include my time doing the modification and then shipping the item to a potential customer.

I'm not trying to find ways to avoid doing this. I REALLY like the idea. I just need to figure out how to get my costs down, so I can pass that savings on to potentail customers. Ya know, ithey have to have a "I gotta have that!" pizzaz and at a reasonable price.

There's only two solutions I can think of. Either I need to become a machinist over night and learn how to make the majority of the parts myself. Or I need to buy the parts at bulk with some conciderable bulk rate discounts. Both of these solutions would require more capital then I have at the moment.

dummyracer36 · Senior Member

Jax, not to be a "nay-sayer" , but the AG industry is even more niche oriented than my industry. i'll give you the same advice i was given by an old timer in my industry when i first started out.....

"whats the best way to make a small fortune doing this?..... invest a very large fortune"

keep in mind, the customers youd be going after are going to be mostly like you/me/us... you started modding your rifles because your mechanically inclined, and this isnt rocket science. if your not actually making the parts, your really just offering an assembly service for other peoples parts. while there may be some out there that would pay for that service, i dont think they number high enough to sustain a business. on top of that, the people that would pay for such a service, are more than likely not going to buy anything that doesnt come with a warranty (again i am speaking from experience from my shop).

if i were going to under take something like this, i would simply build the guns for fun, shoot them for a while, then sell them on a forum. i wouldnt actually try to model a business around it.

just some food for thought

Griff1950 · Member

Jax, one of the biggest expenses of beginning any type of manufacturing business is liability. Insurance can be/is a killer, but your first lawsuit will put you under if you don't have it. Just something else fun to think about.

Jaxom · Senior Member

I think scandles like the Maydoff thing, goes to reprove the old saying, "don't put all your eggs in one baseket". And I have no intentions on doing so.

My main interest is in welding and doing weld jobs. After that I'm looking into doing some light "hobby" level foundry work and as well, "hobby" ag building.

I would start out doing the 22xx's, but ultimatly, I want to make my own brand. (There's plans out there for them!). Combining the income from other sources, I can invest in the tools and equipment needed to do this.

But the major thing is TRYING. I have to do something! I'm not the type of person to sit around and do NOTHING, and then WHINE about how broke I am.

Ah, I'm also interested in woodworking as well. Don't take many tools to make Bows for those interested in archery.