Air Gun Home :: View topic - A Report on the Diana Company (Very Intresting)

Alstone · Moderator & Site Supporter

This an interesting report. Especially the reference to lead pellets and a 6lb limit?

Al

A short visit to Mayer & Grammelspacher
April 24 2009 at 12:38 Hector J Medina

I am just unpacked from Europe. I went to the IWA show (Internationalle Waffen Ausstellung) and to meet the people behind the Diana rifles. I also went to JSB, and to Steyr, but that is something that may be of interest in another forum.

So, let's talk about what is the current situation and what we can expect from Diana / Mayer & Grammelspacher:

First let us emphasize that M&G have been making Diana airguns for the last 119 years. Yes, more than a century. So, yes, they know something about it. There is a reason for the way they do things.

Second let us say, in no uncertain terms, that the US market and the FT market is not their top priority. Of the 80,000 guns or so (my estimates based on their capabilities, not official numbers) they make every year, only a VERY SMALL fraction end up in the hands of "dyed in the wool" enthusiasts like us. Their main market is still Germany and a large fraction of all their guns, go out the doors at UNDER 6 ft-lbs. of energy output (Pentagon F class).

Having said that, we also must say that from a high point of having 400 employees and producing more than half a million guns per year, they are now down to 80 employees. The markets have changed.

It also helped very little that when the US "adult airgun" market was starting, some personal and business disagreement with the then trend-setter, got Diana a mixed reputation. It has also helped little that RWS is now part of UMAREX, and UMAREX has bigger markets to cater to than the extremely specialized
American high power spring gun market. Just to give you an idea: UMAREX now owns Walther and Hämmerli, and the money comes from selling replicas. Is it now clear?

The board at Diana made reasonably recent changes: the current head is Herr Martin Zedler and the current head of engineering is Herr Pero Weisel.

Herr Zedler and Herr Weisel are both committed to keeping Diana in the top-notch class and they are working hard towards that goal. The FIRST examples are the two TH rifles in the roster. Just the start of a new "family". The 56 is based on the 54 and the 470 on the 460, that is clear. What is not clear is that the next generation trigger (T-06) is a much better product and a much nicer trigger. It also will become clear, as time goes by, that some shooters simply cannot put their hands to fine adjustments like the ones required and therefore a lot of questions will start coming from that end.

M&G now makes EVERY metal part in house. Yes they experimented with some outsourcing, but the quality control was terrible and that has gone out the window. Stocks are made in Italy of renewable wood/forests, so, while it will become more expensive, there should be no shortage of wood in the near future. To my knowledge, Diana is the ONLY brand that takes this stuff into account.

Barrels are made in house, but we are looking at the possibility of supplying some specialty barrels to them in accordance with their requirements and have them build complete guns. The idea is to be able to have a .20" cal. 54 or 470, perhaps a .25" cal. one. Yes, that has been made before, but the current setup only allows for 0.177" and .22" cal. for drilling and rifleing. So that may be something we see in the future: Special editions of selected barrel calibers and lengths. The issue of the sound moderation is now being discussed and I have written to Lothar Walther to see if they want to cooperate on the effort. Problem seems to be that under most countries' laws, we would have to use some sophisticated technology without baffles and then weld the shroud to the barrel. Doable, yes, but at what cost? We will know in a few weeks. The good faith and the good intentions are there.

Just to dispel what has been said here, Diana is not looking to compete with GAMO, or Hatsan or the Chinese. Diana is looking to keep in the forefront of the market by giving their guns some "eye appeal" and that is where the new TH stocks come in. Also the new T-06 trigger.

One of the aspects that has cleared the way for better FT guns is the fact that now, with the exception of the US, all the rest of the world will be playing the game at 12 ft-lbs. This makes for a larger market, as all the local/different/peculiar regulations are now the same. We talked about a short stroked 54 for FT and the jury is still out about whether they want to make it or I am at liberty to make them. However, if the tests results and the opinions of both the technicians involved are for it, Diana has agreed to look into a shorter ACTION, to lighten the whole gun. Again, be careful for what you wish, as the American market is small and if the 12 ft-lbs 54 goes forward one way or another, it will almost certainly mark the demise of the 23 ft-lbs 54.

We also discussed an Alu-Schaft that would hold the action AND the scope, so that the scope would not recoil. Tests have proven to be as accurate as conventional methods and this would allow us to use ANY scope, not only airgun rated scopes.

We also discussed the plans for a new PCP.
Yes, they are seriously thinking about it.
Diana made some years ago, the Diana 100. It was a single stroke pneumatic that even got as far as having an electronic firing solenoid. Yes, YEARS before the British were even thinking about it. So the knowledge of holding air in a tank, and releasing it is well know within Diana. We looked at the magazines available in the market and came to the conclusion that, really, there are very few worthwhile magazines.
Conversations are ongoing on this end, but do not despair, there is a Diana PCP in the future. It just looks a little bit fuzzy at the present.

Diana faces great challenges.
First is their local regulations: you can only shoot higher than 6 ft-lbs. guns in approved shooting ranges. Therefore an FT club needs to find a firearms club to host its shoots.
They do have a "Pentagon F" FT, but they are alone in the world in that. Again, this means a smaller market.
There are talks about how we can motivate German shooters to take up again airgun shooting. Price of shooting is proving a good incentive, but the fact that hunting is so well regulated and hunting licenses imply so much effort and expense, might also prove to be a boon.

Last, but definitely not least, comes the non-lead trend. In the EEC, NO lead will be allowed in 3 more years. Indoor shooters, like Match shooters have little to worry about, but the rest of us will have a heck of a problem getting to comply with that. Luckily they are aware and there are other good companies willing to tackle the problem with enough anticipation as to make it a problem and not a crisis. The timetable for the US is not far behind.

Herr Weisel comes from the Auto industry, so his eye goes to simplify production methods while keeping the quality, he has an open mind and I think we can expect good, professional cooperation with them in the near future.

On the commercial side, I do have to admire their steadfastness. UMAREX will continue to be their commercialization channel. They have a contract and they are going to honour that contract. Wish more persons and companies, were that steadfast in their business relations!

So, I am hopeful of the future, with these two extremely qualified individuals (Herr Zedler comes from more than 20 years at Waffen Frankonia) I think that Diana has a good future.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Who is Hector Medina (the author)? He mentions that "they" may be supplying Diana with some barrels (10th paragraph).

Also, the entire world excluding the US hasn't "gone to 12ft-lb" limits- Canada is still much lower than that (4.2fpe), anything over that requires a license- 12fpe or 1200fpe.

Either way, it is interesting. And for the U.S. market, I don't think Umarex has been doing anyone any favors with their pricing structure (MUCH higher than anywhere else in the world it seems).