Air Gun Home :: View topic - Talon is messed up--need help!

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Got out the talon today and was doing some indoor target shooting. After only a few shots, the gun starts doing something extremely disconcerting. After the fourth shot or so, I noticed a bit of kick. Then after the next shot I felt a significant amount of air shoot out from the breech after the shot. I knew something was wrong. Nothing on the rifle has been altered, and it was working fine before for months.

I decided to take one last test shot to see if the problem worsened. It did. After that shot, the air came shooting out harder and longer, probably for about five seconds. Amazingly, all the shots hit the bullseye, even after doing that.

The only thing different is that today it is in the 30s here, which is much colder than usual. Could it be an o-ring in there that has deteriorated? Can the cold cause changes to the valve? Please tell me why it would do this and how to fix it?

DerekVinyard · Member

I'm not familiar with the Talon, but the cold will have very little effect on a springer or pumper, even with CO2 it should not be that drastic. Sounds a seal to me, but I'm sure someone know knows the Talon will be right along.
Best of luck

broommaster2000 · Moderator

I've heard rumours that there is a seal that breaks down after a certain amount of shots... Neutral

cw · Banned

It sounds like you blew a breech seal o-ring. You'll
want to replace both. Did you ever lubricate them?
If they are run dry for for a couple of hundred rounds,
they wear out. I have serviced several Airforce guns
that were dry (unlubricated) from the factory. They
are very easy to replace. First,remove the barrel, then
remove the little screw from the power adjuster (be
careful, it's nylon), pull the power adjuster out with the
hammer spring. The hammer should come out now if you
point the gun towards the floor. Then, pull the foam rubber
cap off of the bolt and unscrew the screw in the bolt.
Then slide the breech slide down and out of the gun.

Now that you have the breech slide out, the seals can be
easily be serviced with a mechanic's pick or o-ring tool.
Coat them with a thin film of diver's silicon grease before
installing. After a thorough cleaning (not o-rings), reassemble
dry, in reverse order.

I've had the same seals in my Condor for two years.
I lubricate them monthly. Instead of the method that
Airforce recomends, I remove the barrel and lubricate
the breech surface upon which they side. If you do it
the Airforce way, you run the risk of getting grease on
the interior of the frame, which will lead to velocity
inconsistencies. The frame interior, breech slide, hammer
and hammer spring MUST be assembled completely
dry and free from ANY grease or oil.

The cold should not have any effect on the operation
of your Talon.

23ib0d0n · Moderator

This?

http://www.stealthresource.org/home.htm

cw · Banned

That's them, parts C.

Bean · Veteran Member

Replacing those seals is very easy. I surprised myself with the fact that 'even I figured it out'. Find some 90 durometer o-rings. A guy on TAG has them from time to time. I have some left over and could mail you a couple if you need them.

However - I'm not convinced this is your problem. By the way you describe it, something is hold your tank valve open. Bad seals usually result in a brief (but very annoying) rush of air during the firing cycle. Not a several second blast.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Thanks for all the help and diagrams guys. I haven't maintained those o-rings at all, but I also haven't shot the rifle that much. I'll be taking her apart and doing all necessary maintenance soon because I'll be replacing the barrel with a 24" .22 cal lothar soon. At that point I'll make sure everything is as it should be.

I'm almost inclined to think that the cold weather had something to do with the malfunction. But with so few things that could actually cause this problem, it may just be a matter of the o-rings failing.

p.s. The main reason I was leary of buying a pcp was because of this exact type of issue. I already had one air leak problem right off the bat, and now 6 months later I have another air pressure problem. It's annoying.

Bean · Veteran Member

I should have included this in my previous post...

Was your tank full?

I've had the tank dump air 3 times. Once was totally my fault. Pellet must not have seated well and fell out the back of the loading port. When fired, the pellet wedged between the hammer and the valve... holding the valve open. You said yours fired the pellet so skip that one. The other two times were when the tank was at low pressure. Both were after a large number (120+) shots and tank pressure must have been very low. I'm guessing there wasn't enough pressure in the tank to properly close the valve.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

I don't know. I expect things like this not to happen when I pay that much for an airgun, however, I didn't do the proper maintenance so it may be my own fault.

I guess in the meantime I'll break out my Hamerli Storm .22 and use that as my primary rifle. Always good to have a back up.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the .22 cal 24" lothar barrel for my talon. Then I can strip her down and lube all the o-rings and swap out the barrels all at once.

If I knew I was going to have to do that I might as well have bought a Condor not a talon, because now I'm spending more than I would've if I'd just bought the Condor first. And I'll have a more powerful gun, bought the velocities will still be much lower than the Condor. But at least I have the option of switching back to the quieter and smaller caliber barrel.

And it's not like 40 fpe is anything to feel inadequate about.

broommaster2000 · Moderator

You can get different ventiles for those rifles, right? I'm not sure how much they are.

A guy over here once experimented with one and measured about 500 Mps or something. That's 1640 Fps. This was in .22, or .25. He got two shots from one fill though. Anyway, that results in a lot of Fpe. I guess you'd have to put a little more of an adequate caliber barrel in the rifle too.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Not sure what a ventile is, but yes, you can get all sorts of barrels for it and swap them out. You can also get a condor valve conversion kit and turn a talon into a condor. The only difference is the shorter frame.