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cw · Banned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw603tH6YqM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SX3f2KmOiI&feature=related

billandbeaufort · Senior Member

You know cw, for somebody that hates the USA as much as you do, you live in a strange place. Why don't you just step over the border (they would like you up there) Oh by the way - Uganda

cw · Banned

I LOVE this country. I just can't stand all of the greedy money mongers.

PS- look up greed in the dictionary and you'll understand where I'm
coming from.

thepaladin · Senior Member

I've pretty much stoped trying to reason with you cw, but I'll give it one more shot. Your views are some what simplistic and doues come off as sort of anit-American. You obviously hate the president on some level, it's ok but I'd suggest a little more thought. The whole attack on the people of the military was a little sterotypical to. I catch it from the left wing sources a lot, but look at the actual facts. To make these things look bad, they have to be stretched.

I doubt any arguments will help but cw, greed is only one part of the problems that are coming home to roost. I'd say dishonesty is a bigger one.

cw · Banned

I hate no human being. I did not notice you trying to REASON with me
at any point, but really dig debating politics. You are one of the very
few republicans that did not lower himself to calling me names. I
appreciate your being civil during our exchanges. So few people can
exchange views in a civilized fashion during a political discussion.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Why is someone who is a critic of the current system labeled as a "hater"?

People have the right to express their opinion, even if the opinion isn't necessarily positive about government or social behavior. Isn't this supposed to be one of the basic tenets of an open democracy?

If merely being a critic gets someone labeled as a hater of their own country- everyone's is going to end up in a very narrow tunnel.

Negativity about certain things does not mean "hate" and there is no logical connection putting the two together in most cases.

cw · Banned

On a positive note, I'ld like to add that, even though we are
where we are at in this country, it's one of the few where one
can express exteme dissatisfaction and like disgust at the leaders
without fear of incarceration and/or death.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Note, I didn't call cw a "hater" I simply said it seemed to me he hated Pres. Bush on "some level". I based that on several posts. I've said myself, that I am, extremely dissatisfied with the Pres. I find a lot of negatives, the problem is he was the best choice of the choices we had.

I don't know exactly where (you) stand cw, I can only base my openions on what I've read. That's why I think I see a lot of sterotypes. I was discharged from the army in 1975. I had the experince of being screamed at in a car wash for daring to wear my dress greens in public. You see, the military could be freely reviled at that time, with very little actual examination of what had happend or gone on. When MY Lai came to light there was a mass jumping on to the band wagon to paint all US soldiers as maniacs, or "baby killers". It wasn't true and very few took note of the Army's cleaning of its own house.

Yes there have been atrocities in the present hostilitise. But they have have been few and far between and the Army comes down on violaters in its ranks far harder than any civilan court.

Well, anyway, I don't know exactly what you believe as I said, but you mentioned Ron Paul. As I've said, I disagree with him on a lot of points, but I am also far closer to Libertarianism in some ways than I am a Republican. I simply find that the places I do disagree, the disagreements are total I suppose.

What I was trying to point out I suppose is that your views come off almost totally as negative (whether they are or not).

This is Bush's last admin. Obama is no option at all. That leaves us with Macain. I have never been happy with the man, but I'll vote for him. I like what I know of Palain and hope we may see an actual American leader forming there, but we'll have to wait and see what comes of the next election. I do firmly believe that if we get Obama the country we end with will not even resemble the one founded 200 years ago.

These are votes that can be fact checked so feel free to:
FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17

FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

While I know this isn't the totality of what you are discussing, this is primarily a gun sight and so.... the primary concern here are these votes and the issue thay touch. So, while I really am not a huge fan of John Macain, I will vote for him as he seems to me to be the candiate who will stay closer to actual Constitution, rather than using the words on the paper as a starting point to spring from and make up my own laws as I go.

cw · Banned

Where did I mention Ron Paul?

cw · Banned

"I do firmly believe that if we get Obama the country we end with will not even resemble the one founded 200 years ago."- thepaliden

That's rich! Like it really does now. NOT! Our forfathers are rolling over in
there graves as we correspond.

thepaladin · Senior Member

Well true .....

Oh sorry I thought I remembered you mentioning RP in a post a while back. if I confused you with someone else I appolagize.

Anyway, it's true we have lost a lot of ground in the last few decades. And it's true that the founders would be shocked at the way the constitution has been.....contorted....to bring us to this point. Still, if we get Obama with a super majority in congress (veto and filibuster proof majorities), the changes will, I believe make everything up to now pale.

Look at Obam's voting record and his plans that have been vocalized. America has up to now at least avoided open socialism, that won't be so long. One new justice and everything can and probably will change. Did you see a movie (and it's a pretty good movie)...Stranger Than Fiction? The main character is an IRS agent. At one point he informs the female lead that in refusing to pay her taxes she is "stealing from the Government". It's an attitude that has been slowly spoon fed to the American people for years, even a couple of generations now. Look at the 16th amendment:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
The supreme court had already ruled that income taxes were illeagl. This is simple=y an amendment that says...inspite of the rest of the constution, we can to tax your income and anything else we want!. Talk about the founders spinning!

There has since then been a move to convince the American people that "all money" belongs to the government and they will let you keep what they can afford. look at the founding of the Fed. With the open admission that taxes are supposed to redistribute wealth we have moved comnpletely away from the freedom and ideals given us by the founders. I suppose it could be said we would be moving from the slope to the drop off. Rolling Eyes