Air Gun Home :: View topic

Bob La Londe · Veteran Member

I just ordered one. I really don't need another .177 gun, but I really like the look of it. Yes, Travis. I am an air gun addict. I have already read that some don't care for the look of it, and that's ok too. Appearance is always in the eye of the beholder. Now to see how fast Mike gets it to me, and to do the initial impressions of the gun. I might even do one of those horrible "unboxing" videos where I open it up on camera and say "oooh... aaaaah", but don't actually tell you anything. LOL.

Here is what I hope.

I hope they copied the B-50 valve with some minor improvements. Its got lots of potential.
I hope it has a decent trigger. ( I don't have a trigger scale, but I know what I like.)
I hope the wood looks ok, but I'm not expecting fine grade furniture for the price.
I hope the pistol grip feels as good as it looks in the one promo picture they show.
I half hope its a power house waiting to be unleashed, and I half hope its pretuned with a bell curve.
I hope the stock barrel is a tack driver. If its just a quarter thumper well I won't hate it.
I hope that shroud looking thing has baffles inside.

I won't tear it down right away, so don't expect to hear about its guts in the first few days after it arrives. I will tear it down eventually.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Is it a "prototype" or are they selling them now?

Bob La Londe · Veteran Member

Limited prototypes available. Must provide feedback.

Bob La Londe · Veteran Member

Well, it arrived two days ago. I have run 32 rounds thru it.

It seems to have the power to shoot 10.5 grain pellets just fine. It might be tunable or adjustable to shoot 16 grain pellets. Before I open it up I want to learn what it will do stock first.

I originally thought the gun was full when it arrived because the gage on the gun was at the top end of the green scale. I didn't know what MPa was though. At the top of the green it reads 15 MPa. Just a hair under 21 MPa (in the yellow on the gage) is a full fill at 3000 PSI. I've since learned that the gun has 16 shots above between 20.X and 15 MPa. That means all my original data is in question. I posted my first shot string on another forum, but I see no point in repeating that data until I get a complete baseline.

It was windy yesterday when I was shooting. The best group I got with cheap Crosman 10.5 CPDs at 23 yards (my test target distance) was about 1/2 inch. I think it can do better for two reasons. 10.5 CPDs are not known for great consistency, the magazines are a little hard to load meaning some pellets probably get damaged in loading. It was windy.

The data I did get that might be pertinent is.

7.9s at lower power (not lowest) settings easily over 1000
10.5s same power setting over 900
Stovepipe (2x7.9s) 849

That means in my opinion the gun can be adjusted for shooting pellets from 7.9 to 16. It may have more capability than that, but I haven't had enough bench time with it yet.

~~~ Here are some observations I sent back for gun improvements. This was all noted prior to the information noted above. ~~~

I posted some of my initial impressions on Airgun Guild here: http://airgunguild.com/index.php/topic,515.msg5483.html#msg5483

I have a few items of feedback specifically for you already. These are all from a first impression point of view.

The picatinny rail is purely cosmetic. As a plastic part you can't firmly mount anything to it, and if you choose to the thing flexes. About all it would be useful for is a flashlight mount. Since the scope has to be mounted on the dovetail rail behind it even that will be marginal and tricky. It is pretty though. I admit its part of what got my attention. The overall appearance of the gun. The picatinny rail also prevents the addition of a moderator. Since the gun is so loud that is going to be pretty important to a lot of users. Myself included. I haven't looked to see what is involved in removing the rail, but I am sure the gun will be much more utilitarian and less pretty in appearance when it comes off. It does appear that the rail assembly might be used to stabilize the barrel. In that case some design changes might be more practical. Maybe a removable front section to allow room for a moderator to clamp on the barrel.

The safety has a couple issues. It works, but when you cock the gun it doesn't quite go all the way forward. It won't fire, but its not firmly forward. This gives me a fundamental instinctive distrust of it. The addition of a spring loaded pusher or link to make sure it seats forward all the way would improve performance and usability. The position of the safety requires a slight movement of my entire hand on the pistol grip to disengage. Like a lot of shooters I tend to have the gun on safe until I am ready to use it. If I come on target I have to unseat my palm slightly to disengage the safety forcing me to come back on target again. Its not an issue on the bench when I have all the time in the world, but in the field it could be. It should be further back and easier to manage. I have normal size adult male hands. I wear size large or sometimes x large in work gloves. Shooters with smaller hands will have difficulty with it. I expected that it would be built with smaller shooters in mind when I felt the relatively short length of pull.

The overall length and balance of the gun feels like it might make a decent offhand shooter if the barrel is up to the task.

The wood is very pretty. Nicer than I expected. The pistol grip doesn't feel quite right to me. Seems to be made for a larger hand than mine. I may get use to that over time. I think the target market needs to be determined before determining the size and spacing of the finger grooves. For a general introductory market PCP maybe eliminating them in exchange for a nice checkered pistol grip instead might be a good choice. I'm not sure what the exact market is.

The forearm is one of those cosmetic attractions of the gun. Some folks will like it and others will not. I happen to like the appearance, but because the of way it assembles and mounts there is a slight gap between the halves in several places. This will be a detraction for many people. The worst gap is at the front where it shows the most. Perhpaps one more clamping screw in that front section would eliminate that. In the rear there is a slight misalignment creating a ridge. Maybe if it was molded with positive and negative keying elements that could be eliminated. I am sure it will annoy some shooters who brace their arm against their chest and rest the forearm on their palm. I ordinarily hate fat forearms, but this one feels good in my hand otherwise.

The magazines are terrible. I first tried loading them with 10.5gr CPDs. It was an extreme exercise to load them, but they do barely fit. I am sure the difficulty in loading them will cause pellet deformations and have a negative affect on accuracy. I also tried shorter 7.9 gr CPDs and found they were only marginally easier to load. I had to hold the magazine just right, drop the pellet in, and then feed it in the rest of the way with a stylus making sure not to push it through too far preventing the drum from rotating. It would be better to go to a full Marauder style magazine, but a simple fix for these to make them better would be to:

~~ I would like to add that since sending this feedback I was told the magazines are being redesigned ~~

1. Make it a 7 shooter or make the magazine bigger.
2. Mark position 8/7 with a white impression of some kind.
3. Create a second hole for loading the pellets into the cylinder. When the spring is released the second hole would be slightly off the position of the pellet so that the pellet could not fall out.

~~ I also thought that simply elongating the loading hole might make the magazines easier to load. That comment was not in my original feedback~~

A thicker magazine would also be better allowing for loading of longer pellets. This would require a receiver modification. Many pointed pellets and poly tips probably will not fit at all in this magazine.

I suspect I'll be making a single shot tray for mine soon enough. A compromise might be to supply a single shot tray with the gun. Cost could be offset by only providing two magazines instead of three. If this is done it should be documented in the manual as well. ie: You can use 8gr and smaller pellets in the magazines, but longer pellets should be shot using the single shot tray. The manual does mentions shooting without the magazines, but because of the rather narrow space in the receiver only those with small hands will be able to easily feed a single pellet. A single shot tray is the only answer to that.

I fired the gun three times last night. Its quite loud. I think its louder than my B50 which I have adjusted to over 30FPE with .22 pellets. I suspect my neighbors will know when I am using this one. Between the noise (which surprised me) and the vagaries of the feel of the safety I didn't get a great feel for the trigger, but I did the classic close my eyes and "feel" it once. I don't have any immediate feedback on it except to say that nothing struck me as horribly bad. I'll need to shoot it several times to give better feedback on the trigger. The loudness speaks to the efficiency of the gun. It almost guarantees it can be adjusted or modified to be much more powerful or to have a higher shot count. Its wasting a lot of air to make that report.

~~ Since then I have shot it more as indicated above and I find the trigger to be decent. Its got a long first stage and a decently crisp second stage. I do not have a trigger scale, but IMO the pull is very good. Its right at dividing line between a bench trigger and a field trigger. ~~

For the US market a gage marked in PSI or BAR or possibly both would be better. I still have to go look up a conversion for MPa so I can read the gage. Those of us who air into airguns are getting used to BAR, but almost all American are used to PSI. I have not checked the accuracy of the gage against any of my known accurate gages yet.

~~ 3000 PSI according to the gage on my SCBA tank indicates a little over 20 MPa on the gun gage. That means atleast the gage on this gun is decent for now. ~~

I will probably have more feedback as I shoot it, and even more after I tear the gun down to check out the air flow if you feel it will have a positive affect on the build of the guns.

Bob La Londe · Veteran Member

I just haven't done the testing with this gun that I should have by this point.

I did try some copper plated 10.65 gr H&N domed pellets a couple days ago. They were more accurate than the Crosman 10.5 CPDs. There are a number of reasons this might be the case.

1. They might have less deformation loading into the magazines. They seemed to be easier to load inspite of their close length.

2. They seemed to take a little more force to seat in the barrel. This could just be that the copper plate is harder than lead, but they might also be a better fit for the rifling of the gun.

3. The pellet speed due to increased weight might be better for this gun.

I would note that the H&N 10.65 Coppers are better in my .177 Marauder as well.

I still have not shot the rabbit magnums in the gun that I hope to tune it for. They are also a copper plated pellet.