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Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

I am so frustrated...again.

The right scope mounts finally came today, ten days later. I mounted my Leapers fifth gen and set to sighting her in. Of course, my size 14 shoe box was not big enough to hit at only ten yards. I don't know if they dial these things out to not even be close to zeroed before they ship them, but whatever.

So, the windage and elevation knobs are an interesting sort. Instead of just unscrewing the scope caps to reveal dials that can be turned manually or with a screw driver, the good folks at leapers decided to have this allen wrench screw which "unlocks" the knobs for adjustment. Oh, how helpful that they added this extra superfluous step.

Anyway, I finally had to shoot the damn ground just to see where the POI was since I couldn't even register it on the target. It was way left. So I then adjust to the right only to realize that no matter how much I turned the dial it seemingly would do nothing notable to the POI.

My frustration began to build. Undaunted, I continued to fire dozens of shots through this thing only to get the same results over and over. I began cranking the knob dozens of rotations each way, to the left and right. Didn't seem to make a difference.

Finally I took it indoors and did a very jury wrigged version of zeroing. I held the crosshairs where I was aiming and then turned the knob until they ended up centered on the POI on the target. Cool, I thought to myself.

I then take the target back outside. Presto Chango! Nothing happened. Still was hitting way to the left. At this point I was so mad, it was unbelievable. How could this be. Then I started turning and turning and nothing changed regardless of how many shots I fired.

Is it possible I broke the knob or something. Seems unlikely. I just don't know what to do and why this should be so hard. So pissed off right now.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Loosen the mounts around the scope body (not the rail) and wiggle it back and forth a bit and then tighten them. If you put the mounts on the scope, tightened them, and then put it on the gun- you will likely be bending the scope body slightly making zeroing in virtually impossible.

As for what's what on the Leaper's scope and its particular setup- I don't know the product line well enough to suggest anything.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

For what reason would a gun and scope not be able to hit within six inches of the bullseye at 10 yards?

I mean think about it. The scope faces in in a forward, level postion which is in line with the barrel. In general the cross hairs should be pointed in a level, forward position, even before they've ever been adjusted. So at such a short range, the POI should be somewhat close to what your aiming at.

Imagine at 100 yards where it would've been? Like 8 feet to the left!

Is it true that if the POI is to the left then I turn the windage knob to the right? The knob moves the cross hairs to the direction it says, which in actuality has the opposite effect of where the POI ends up. Is that right?

Westonhill · Member

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Re-read my first post- if you clamped the rings on the scope tube and then fastened everything to the scope rail on the gun- there will be a bend- I guarantee it. Loosen the rings on the scope (not the rail of the gun)- wobble it a bit and re-tighten. If the scope is cocked because of doing this, it may never get close to hitting the target as it is likely placed beyond that scope's range of adjustment.

Then, along with Westonhill's tip- get it set up for the closest range it can be sighted in and see what happens.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwed. I did what you said Eric, eventhough I'd mounted it correctly initially--mounting the rings to the reciever and then put the scope on.

I guess I'm out $80 bucks and know NEVER TO BUY LEAPERS AGAIN. I just can't imagine the thought process of their engineers. The allen screws don't come off and they are prone to stripping. I presume you are to just never sight the scope in again once they are stripped. Or, maybe they want you to buy a new scope when that happens. What a joke.

The "clicks" don't even sound like clicks really, it just seems like the knobs turn. They have these arbitrary numbers on them like that means something, but clearly you have to spin these things dozens of revolutions to get even slight results.

I adjusted the range on it to 50 yards and sighted in on something and begain cranking the knobs to see if I could even see any change in the movement off center. No change in anything.

Is it possible that I've overcranked the dial one way or another? How would you correct that? How would you know which way it was overcranked? Just so confused here guys.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

There's always the chance you got the bad one in the batch. Can you return it for an exchange? Leapers has some sort of warranty (don't know offhand what it is, but a scope DOA out-of-the-box shouldn't cause any argument unless you fubar'd it up, cosmetically speaking.

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Nevermind, I figured it out. Apparently there is a "mystery distance" in which you are to intuitively know how far to back out the allen screw. (Presumably the Leapers sentients are projecting this information into the universe for scope users to obtain).

Well, once you find this magical spot, the knobs then go from just turning, to clicking. Had the knobs not spun indefinitely, and locked after a full rotation, then I would've known that they were only meant to turn like that in order to zero in the dials. But nope, you are to just know this from birth presumably.

Then if you don't back the screws out far enough, it will make this wierd grinding and rubbing noise as though something is being stripped internally inside the scope. Keep in mind that there is some sort of spring which pushes the knobs against the allen screw, thus creating this "magical" zone of where it will allow the adjustment to work. It's just plain bad engineering and I don't feel completely dumb for not figuring this out right off the bat.

AirGunEric · Site Admin

Well, at least you figured it out. I assume there were no instructions in the box with it?

Also- if you bought it this way, a "DOA" product is normally returnable to the retailer you got it from- not necessarily having to ship it back to the manufacturer's "repair depot".

23ib0d0n · Moderator

I have 6 or 8 Leapers scopes. No problems with any of them. For the money, exceptional optical clarity and repeatability.

23ib0d0n · Moderator

More about glass:

The majority of air rifle owners like scopes on their rifles. This is primarily because they allow the shooter to realize the full potential of the gun's accuracy. (In some cases though, the shooter may have no choice; many major gun makers don't fit open sights to their guns.) Another major advantage of fitting a scope is that, since there is no need to continuously shift the eye's focus between the foresight, rear sight and target, aiming a scoped gun is easier than using open sights.

Fitting a scope does not mean that you can't use open sights. It is possible to buy special raised mounts that have a hollowed out space underneath the scope, so that the open sights can still be clearly seen while the scope is mounted. This is particularly useful if the gun is to be used for both long and short range work; the scope can be sighted in for long range use, and the open sights for short range.

While it is possible to buy these mounts, it is fairly common to just use standard mounts and remove the front (open) sight (especially if it is covered by a hood). This is in order to prevent it from showing up through the scope as an out-of-focus blur, obscuring part of the image.

NOTE: Before we go any further, please remember: scopes do not double up as carrying handles! Fit a sling or get a proper case to carry your airgun in! Using an air gun’s scope to lug it around by is a sure-fire way of knocking it's aim well off centre, necessitating sighting in again.

If you wish to fit a scope to an airgun, you must use a proper airgun scope and not one designed for use with live-round firearms. This is for two reasons:
1. The "double-recoil" of a spring piston airgun can easily break the reticule of a live-round firearm's scope. Many such scopes only brace the reticule to allow for the gun to recoil in one direction; backwards.
2. Scopes made for live-round firearms are often intended for hitting targets 100m or more away, and designed so that parallax is not a problem at these ranges. This means that serious parallax problems can occur at 20m or less, especially if the scope's magnification is greater than 4x.

Scope specifications are given in the form: "m x d" where m gives the magnification (power) of the scope and d gives the diameter of the objective lens in mm.

The higher a scope's magnification is:
The smaller the scope's field of view at any given distance.

The nearer you will appear to be to the target (e.g. a 4x scope will appear to bring the target 4 times closer you).

The higher the potential to place pellets on target with greater accuracy.

The more difficult it will appear to be to keep the gun on target. It is not easy to hold a gun perfectly steady; your breathing, and even your pulse, makes the gun wave around. The more powerful the scope is; the more this "wobble" will be amplified.

The dimmer the image will be.

Some scopes have variable magnification, in which case m will be of the form: "x-y", with x and y being the minimum and maximum magnification that the scope can achieve.

The larger the diameter of the objective lens, the better, as the more light the scope will be able to transmit to your eye, and the brighter the image appears. This also means that a larger objective will allow you to use your airgun in low-light situations where there is little ambient light falling on the target.

In addition to its normal specification, a scope can further be described by one or more of the following acronyms:
BDC = Bullet Drop Compensator.
TV = a wide, TV shaped rectangular view seen when you look through the scope.
PA = Parallax Adjustment.
RF = Range Finder.
WA = Wide Angle view.

The following scope specifications are suggested for various uses:
General use 4x15mm, 4x20mm, 4x28mm, 4x32mm

Hunting 4x40mm, 6x40mm, 2-7x32mm, 3-9x40mm, 4-12x

4x magnification should suffice, with a minimum 32mm objective lens. For low light hunting, a 45mm+ objective should be used, and an illuminated reticule would be a great bonus.

Long range use, or field target 4- 16x, 6-24x, 18-40x

A minimum objective of about 40mm is needed, preferably with parallax adjustment and a distance calibrated focus on the objective bell.

When fitting a scope, the following points should be noted:
The image seen through the scope should be clear (an even circle around the lens surrounded by another even circle which is the closest edge of the eyepiece should be seen).

Make sure that the scope mounts allow easy access to the breech for loading pellets, etc.

Check that all screws on the mounts are tight. They should not be over-tightened, and only give a moderate hold. On a recoiling gun, the mounts will have to be clamped on more than would be necessary on a recoilless one, in order to minimize scope creep. If the dovetail grooves on the gun are made of plastic, it is possible to damage them if the mounts are excessively tightened.

MAKE SURE THAT THE TOP TURRET IS VERTICALLY ALIGNED WITH RESPECT TO THE GUN!

See description of canting below.

One final point:
Never attempt to disassemble your scope! They are typically waterproof and often contain nitrogen gas to help this. Dismantling will release this gas. If your scope does come apart do not put anything down tube; this will inevitably break the reticule. If any repairs ever need doing to your scope; send it back to the manufacturer - don't try to fix it yourself.

Check your gun's zero:
At the start of every shooting session; slight knocks and bangs that can occur easily when the gun is being handled or moved from place to place can easily knock the sights off zero. Also, if the gun uses CO2, any change in the ambient temperature can affect the gun's zero.

After adding or removing a silencer.

After changing your shooting position; even your grip on the gun can change the pellets' point of impact.

When changing to a different pellet brand/make.

To sight in, the following procedure is suggested:
1. Set up your backstop with a large target a short way away from your shooting position. A target about the size of an A3 sheet of paper, no more than about 15m away should be sufficient. Try to use a proper zeroing target (consisting of a series of horizontal and vertical ruled lines), checked with a plumb-line. (A piece of string with a weight attached will serve to check it's vertical) to make sure it's vertical. Note: You should change targets as often as is needed so that you can always see where each individual pellet is hitting.

2. Check the screws on the scope's mounts are properly tightened.

3. Set the scope to its lowest magnification. If the scope has an adjustable focus ring on its ocular bell, set this the minimum, and then adjust to obtain the clearest image.

4. Get into a stable position with a tin of pellets within easy reach.

5. To start the actual sighting in, load the gun (checking the pellet loaded is not distorted in any way) and check that your range is clear.

6. Put the centre of the scope's cross-hairs on the centre of the target (or line them up where a pair of horizontal and vertical lines intersects if a zeroing target is being used). Avoid canting the gun.

7. Let off the shot.

8. Repeat steps 5-7 at least four more times.

9. Check the target and if necessary, remove the scope's protective turret caps and adjust the scope's windage and elevation settings as appropriate, using the average of the group for reference.

For scopes with " 1 Click = 1/4" @ 100 yards":
1 Click = 1/4" @ 100 yards
1 Click = 1/8" @ 50 yards
1 Click = 1/16" @ 25 yards, etc...

Often an airgun can shoot low, but there is no "up" adjustment remaining. This often occurs on rifles with a "drooped" barrel, and can easily be overcome by placing a small piece of photographic film between the scope and one of its mounts. The same trick can be applied if, for some reason, the gun shoots too high, but there is no more "down" adjustment remaining.

10. Repeat steps 5-9 until the pellets are consistently hitting dead centre.

11. Next, move the target back to the distance you intend to do most of your normal shooting from. For hunters and target shooters this may be around 30m or so, for plinking; around 20m. Repeat steps 5-11.

12. Replace the scope's protective turret caps. When you have finished this, the scope is fully sighted in, and ready for use.

Note: Sighting in should be done in still air; don't sight-in on a windy day! Pellets can easily be blowed off-course. Sighting in should preferably be done indoors (provided you can find somewhere with sufficient space; a long, empty hall would be ideal).

Scope terminology 1/4 minute of angle clicks This describes the sensitivity of the scope's turret adjustment; one "click" of the scopes turret shifts the pellets point of impact by 1/4" at 100 yards (= 1/4 MOA). Since the effective range of an air rifle is usually sub-45m, this sensitivity needs to be scaled down to be useful, but shows that the scope has the following property:
1 Click = precisely 1/4" @ 100 yards
1 Click = precisely 1/8" @ 50 yards
1 Click = precisely 1/16" @ 25 yards, etc

bullet drop compensator
Externally adjustable windage and elevation turrets, making it easy to "dial in" a new zero at different distances.

Cantina
"Canting" increases inaccuracy when shooting over longer distances, and is probably the main cause of missing targets at long distances. The scope is canted if it is not mounted with the vertical cross-hair perfectly upright with respect to the gun's receiver. In this case, the barrel will be out of alignment with the centre of the crosshairs. The gun can be canted if it is held badly, and not upright. To prevent the gun being canted, you can buy a special "scope leveler" (small spirit level) which fixes to the side of the scope. When aiming, you simply keep both eyes open and the leveler is superimposed on the scope's sight picture, allowing you to aim and keep an eye on the gun's alignment at the same time.

A scope's exit pupil is the small cone of light seen in the eyepiece. To compute the diameter of any particular scope's exit pupil, divide the size of the objective lens by the magnification the scope provides.
For example; a 4x20mm scope has an exit pupil of 20/4 = 5mm. obviously the exit pupil gets bigger the lower the magnification and larger the objective lens. The smaller a scope's exit pupil is, the harder it is to acquire the image.
Conversely, an oversized exit pupil makes target acquisition faster and easier. Although, having said that, the eye cannot utilize any more light than what is obtained by an exit pupil of about 7mm, even at night.

eye relief
The amount of space left between the ocular lens and the shooters' eye. When looking through an air rifle scope, you should have around 2-3 inches' eye relief, that is; you should leave around 2-3 inches' between the back of the scope and your eye. This is especially important with spring piston airguns, where the recoil could cause the scope to hit you in the face otherwise.

Mounts
These are what fix a scope to a gun's receiver. Mounts consist either of one or two pieces. One piece mounts are better for spring piston airguns as they can offer a better grip on the gun, and so reduce scope creep. One piece mounts are normally used with heavy scopes. A lot of budget-priced scopes come complete with integral mounts. When buying mounts, you should aim to get the best one that you can afford.

objective bell
The wider part at the front of the scope, housing the objective lens.

objective lens
The scope's larger, front lens. Basically, the larger this lens is, the better. This is especially true when the targets you shoot at are poorly illuminated, or the scope has high magnification.

Ocular bell
The wider part at the rear of the scope, housing the ocular lens.

ocular lens
The scope's smaller, rearmost lens, which focuses the combined image of target and reticule into the shooters' eye.

Parallax is the apparent shift of the scope's reticule on the target when the scope is kept perfectly still, and the image viewed through the scope is observed from different points. This effect is most noticeable at very short ranges, and can lead to great inaccuracy at long ranges. Parallax is caused by the image of the target not being focused exactly on the same plane as the reticule.
Because:
1. A fixed focus scope can only be focused at one distance, and
2. Because the distance between the object lens and the reticule is fixed;
If you point the scope at a target nearer or farther away than the focus distance, the targets image will not be focused exactly on the reticule. This will force you to focus your eye between the two planes; effectively reducing the scope's accuracy. Parallax error cannot occur if your eye is aligned exactly with the target and reticule.

Parallax ring
Some scopes allow parallax error to be "dialed out" by adjusting the objective lens. This is done by means of changing a parallax setting (adjustable objective focus), on the objective bell. The adjustable bell is normally calibrated in meters/yards; helpful if you know the distance you are shooting from. On high powered scopes, this ring can also be used as a secondary focus facility for estimating the range to the target.

Reticule
A scope's reticule is the two thin cross-hairs inside the scope that are superimposed onto the target to show exactly where the pellet will impact. The reticule is usually mounted just in front of the ocular bell. It consists of either two extremely fine wires (which are virtually invisible to the naked eye), or an etched reticule which is made up of a glass disc with the reticule marked on it. Because a scope's reticule can be snapped extremely easily, nothing should ever be poked down the scope's tube.
The simplest scope reticule consists of two crossing lines, but another common type is the duplex reticule, where the cross-hairs are thinner in the centre than they are towards the sides of the scope.

A 30/30 reticule is a particular type of duplex reticule; the thin-lined part of the cross-hair representing an area of 30" on the target when viewed at 4x magnification at a range of 100 yards. Scaled down for air rifle ranges, this is an area of approximately 13cm at 40m, or 8cm at 25m. This is useful when trying to estimate range, and the amount of holdover to give a target. Another type of reticule is the graduated reticule, made up of a series of horizontal lines which form a ladder to provide aiming points at varying ranges.

Scope creep is found on recoiling airguns due to the whiplash effect of the airgun's recoil. When the gun's trigger is squeezed, the trigger/sear mechanism releases a piston that flies forwards at high speed, causing the gun to recoil backwards. Then the piston is stopped suddenly by the air compressed by it, and rebounds backwards, making the gun snap forwards in mid-recoil. Over time, this causes the scope to slowly "creep" backwards towards the rear of the gun, putting the scope off zero and making re-sighting necessary.

Turrents
The raised section about half way down the scope's tube. Used to adjust the reticule to coincide with the pellets point of impact.

That should about cover ANY scope questions. Twisted Evil

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Hey thanks guys. I kind of feel bad for badmouthing Leapers now. Lol.

Even despite the issue I was having, the scope is wonderful. Big sight picture, excellent clarity, multi-colored reticle, etc.

I read the manual, and admittidly didn't fully acknowledge and understand the part about the zeroing adjustments. I have a tendency to gloss over the sections that I feel don't apply to me.

I mean I've got five scopes and all the others work off of the same basic principle. Then all of a sudden this Leapers comes and functions completely differently than anything I've ever seen before.

Bottom line, the whole purpose of that zeroing adjustment feature is so that you can adjust for windage and elevation while being able to keep a "zero point" to go back to or adjust from. But this ain't no .308 powder burner and I'm not shooting Rams on a mountain side at 250 yards. I'm shooting a frigin' air rifle at 10-25 yards. I have no need to adjust for windage ever, and since it is a mildot, I can use the appropriate elevation markings on the crosshairs to adjust for height without having to raise and lower the reticle's center.

I'm learning at least.

Btw, a Leapers customer service rep responded back to me within about 12 hours after sending my "threatening" email to them. Not gonna' lie, they are on top of their game. The person immediately identified the exact issue as the likely cause of my problem as well as offering additional assistance and options for returning or reparing the scope for me. As promised, I told them I'd recommend them to others if they provided good customer service so BUY LEAPERS SCOPES, they are a good outfit after all!

BBGun Bob · Veteran Member

What you have done is loosened the locking screws out to far.Put your allen wrench it the screw and start to tighten lockdown device in your turrent.While doing this turn your adjustment knob until you feel it start clicking like a normal scope.Once you get to this point you will be able to feel the clicks in your windage and elevation knobs(now you will move the internals).A little tighter with the locking allen screws will give a better feel to the clicks, if its way to hard to turn back them off a little or vise-versa..Be very careful careful when you tighten them down/lock or you will change your scope settings.At first I hated those same scopes but after I learned how to use the adjusters with lock there great.At least you know if something changes POI its not because something/someone turned your adjustments on the scope.It took a hit or was knocked out of wack by a bump in the road.
Remember they don't have to come out to far to move your adjusters.
I have even left mine loose enough but still hard to move turret knobs with out tightening them down,no one in my house touches my rifles except me.
Thank God!!

Hope this helps you.
Leapers 3-9X42 Illuminated AO

Rogerflat · Silver Status Member

Ok, so I get home today ready to sight in. I was shooting dome pellets and the scope seemed to respond right away to the adjustments. I got it pretty close to center and then decided to switch to Crow Mags which I intend to hunt with.

Immediately the crow mags were way off. Of course, still way to the left. Honestly, I then started adjusting to the right and at first it would look like they were getting closer to the bulls but then I'd fire again and miss the 4 inch diameter target. WTF?!? Not again I'm thinking.

I kept shooting to the left no matter what adjustment I made. It actually got to the point where the turret knob maxed out on how far it could go to the right. This signals to me that something was way off.

Not wanting to relive yesterday's nightmare, I put the crow mags away and went back to the domes. I still had to adjust a little but I was able to get some nice groups that were dead on.

But it still doesn't explain why those crow mags are hitting so far left. I know they are a heavier, longer pellet, but this is getting absurd. It really is.